Marriage and Civil Partnerships: what is the ideal situation?

[davieddy]

Originally Posted by aketilander

One of the political parties in government (Centerpartiet) has recently suggested that polygami (sic) should be legal.

If that means making models of Archimeiden solids out of paper, it sounds like I should have been jailed ages ago.

[Brian-E]

Originally Posted by aketilander

"Civil partnerships and marriage, both options available to all couples"

This is the present situation in Sweden. To clarify this counts for both civil and religious (in church) marriges.

Are churches required not to discriminate in the marriages which they conduct in Sweden?

I've heard that in the UK the government has taken great pains to reassure churches that they will not be obliged to carry out marriages between same sex couples. The religious groups have been raising such an outcry over the proposed legislation! Of course, marriage registry offices will be required to do perform all marriages. Whether all individual marriage registrars must do so themselves, or whether they are allowed to defer ones of which they disapprove to colleagues, is another question. In the case of civil partnerships, which have been available in the UK since 2005, it certainly seems that registrars with religious objections to same sex partnerships are not tolerated: the famous case of Lilian Ladele, the christian registrar who unsuccessfully took her case as far as the Supreme Court, seems to show that such religious objections amongst registry office staff are not permitted as grounds for refusing their obligations.

In The Netherlands the issue of church weddings is relatively unimportant because all marriages must be carried out at a state registry office, and any church involvement is merely extra to that if the couple chooses to have it. Therefore discrimination by churches here is not a critical issue. However, individual marriage registrars who refuse lesbian and gay couples are an issue. All attempts to stop this discrimination have so far failed because christian political parties have had continued influence, either direct involvement in coalition governments or their support being needed for sufficient parliamentary majorities, and have used this influence to ensure that these last vestiges of discrimination remain. Because all couples are able to marry in all areas (all areas must by law ensure that a willing marriage registrar is always available), the discrimination which still occurs is of little practical consequence. But nearly 12 years after marriage discrimination was supposedly abolished, the continued situation does annoy the LGBT rights organisations here.

[aketilander]

Originally Posted by Brian-E

Are churches required not to discriminate in the marriages which they conduct in Sweden?

There are about 40 churches/denominations (jews and muslims etc. included, I think (not sure)) which have permision to perform marriages. In order to have this permision the church/organisation has to have at least on priest/pastor who perform same-sex marriges. When this rule came there was a lot o debate in the churches and some churches discussed not to keep the permision to marriage, but in the end almost all did keep it.

[aketilander]

Originally Posted by davieddy

I should have been jailed ages ago.

Well in Sweden you may have as many partners you want at the same time. Its not forbidden to live together with several and have kids together with serveral at the same time. Only thing forbidden is to have an official marriage or partnership together with more then one person at the same time. If you marry more then one the "punishment" is that the last marriage is dissolved.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi..._world_map.png

[davieddy]

Originally Posted by aketilander

Well in Sweden you may have as many partners you want at the same time. Its not forbidden to live together with several and have kids together with serveral at the same time. Only thing forbidden is to have an official marriage or partnership together with more then one person at the same time. If you marry more then one the "punishment" is that the last marriage is dissolved.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi..._world_map.png

I shall book my ticket immediately.
Might even stop over in Amsterdam en route

[Brian-E]

Originally Posted by aketilander

There are about 40 churches/denominations (jews and muslims etc. included, I think (not sure)) which have permision to perform marriages. In order to have this permision the church/organisation has to have at least on priest/pastor who perform same-sex marriges. When this rule came there was a lot o debate in the churches and some churches discussed not to keep the permision to marriage, but in the end almost all did keep it.

I'm seriously impressed.
Okay, having at least one priest or pastor per church who is prepared to perform same sex marriages is not quite embracing marriage for all with the fullest enthusiasm, but it's an awful lot better than most religions of the world are managing. If almost all churches have continued to conduct marriages under these conditions, then religion in Sweden is pretty well integrated with the rest of Sweden's strong humanitarian attitudes.

[Dubslow]

Originally Posted by Brian-E

I'm seriously impressed.
Okay, having at least one priest or pastor per church who is prepared to perform same sex marriages is not quite embracing marriage for all with the fullest enthusiasm, but it's an awful lot better than most religions of the world are managing. If almost all churches have continued to conduct marriages under these conditions, then religion in Sweden is pretty well integrated with the rest of Sweden's strong humanitarian attitudes.

I'm moving to Sweden.


(Seriously, there's a whole bunch more snow there than in Illinois. This blasted state keeps cheating me of the snow I know it can produce. )

[LaurV]

Originally Posted by aketilander

Well in Sweden you may have as many partners you want at the same time. Its not forbidden to live together with several and have kids together with serveral at the same time. Only thing forbidden is to have an official marriage or partnership together with more then one person at the same time. If you marry more then one the "punishment" is that the last marriage is dissolved.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi..._world_map.png

There should be a newer link, situation changed a lot since 2006. This file is from 2009 (and nicer colored), and it might be even a newer one, which I did not find.

[davieddy]

Originally Posted by davieddy

I shall book my ticket immediately.
Might even stop over in Amsterdam en route

Originally Posted by Dubslow

I'm moving to Sweden.


(Seriously, there's a whole bunch more snow there than in Illinois. This blasted state keeps cheating me of the snow I know it can produce. )

We've got snow here in sunny England ATM, albeit not as much as in 1963 or Sweden.
As well as Amsterdam, I might take in Copenhagen and/or Helsinki.

D

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by davieddy

I shall book my ticket immediately.
Might even stop over in Amsterdam en route

Be careful what you wish for. >.> =)