Anticipating white's n-th move (n >= 17) - Page 2

Raman · 2013-02-06, 19:39

If in case,
18. Qc2 dxe4 19. Rbd1 / Rfd1 moves, then

how would you react to it ?

By 19... Qc7 move, or 19... exf3 move ?

LaurV · 2013-02-07, 15:34

[QUOTE=Raman;328117]If in case,
18. Qc2 dxe4 19. Rbd1 / Rfd1 moves, then

how would you react to it ?

By 19... Qc7 move, or 19... exf3 move ?[/QUOTE]
Hey! Welcome back! I didn't know if you will return back to the team or not.

I am always very optimistic when I play a game (not only chess), as you may be knowing already....:P

Moving the rook from f1 should be bad for them, they lose 3 or 4 pieces there, for a queen and a couple of pawns, and I can win a game with a rook and two bishops or a rook a bishop and a knight, against a queen and (maybe) a pawn, with my eyes closed... :razz:

Moving the rook from b1.... hm... this would need more study, but... does it really matter? Would they give a (second) rook for a pawn in f3? They can't move the e2 horse, if they do so, they lose the pawn in f4 and the horse is forever locked in c1. We still have sente. What sente? We have big offensive! The Z day!

Anyhow, I did not look into this too much. I studied more the version when they move the rook after they take the pawn, but that seems very good for us too, like in

18.... dxe4 19.Bxe4 Nd5 20.Rbd1 Nxe3 21.Rxd8, then Raxd8! sacrifice the queen and again we have plenty of material advantage.

I don't believe they can win this anymore, we have at least the draw. Depending of their next moves, we even may win it... :whistle:

Raman · 2013-02-07, 18:45

If in case,
18. Qc2 dxe4 19. Bxe4 moves, then

how would you react to it ?
thereby

By 19... Nd5 move, or [COLOR=White]by [/COLOR]19... Bxe4 move ?[STRIKE] , or [COLOR=White]with [/COLOR]19... Nf5 move ?[/STRIKE]

Why?
thereby

science_man_88 · 2013-02-07, 21:56

I see exd4 but I see how they could use it to advance their queen to e4 at least if played wrong, but I don't see anything with too much less movement that does anything, beware exd4 Bxe4 Bxe4 Qxe4 maybe if they can find a use for it. of course d4 makes a three on three but then they win. or do they maybe we can check them. anyways exd4 is fine.

Dubslow · 2013-02-08, 01:49

[QUOTE=science_man_88;328384]I see exd4 but I see how they could use it to advance their queen to e4 at least if played wrong, but I don't see anything with too much less movement that does anything, beware exd4 Bxe4 Bxe4 Qxe4 maybe if they can find a use for it. of course d4 makes a three on three but then they win. or do they maybe we can check them. anyways exd4 is fine.[/QUOTE]

Well LaurV suggests that after they reply Bxe4, we reply Nd5. Anyways I'll send dxe4 now.

Raman · 2013-02-08, 15:05

[QUOTE=Dubslow;328432]Well LaurV suggests that after they reply Bxe4, we reply Nd5. Anyways I'll send dxe4 now.[/QUOTE]

Well, 18... dxe4 move is the way to go - by now itself.

But if they would have moved with 19. Bxe4 move, then

I for one, would prefer with the 19... Bxe4 move, rather than by going ahead with the 19... Nd5 move, by itself.

I am not against the 19... Nd5 move, but it is likely being to be my own second choice!

By same way, what's your own analysis, being?

[COLOR="White"]I am less likely to go for with the other moves 19... Nf5, ...[/COLOR]

Raman · 2013-02-08, 15:15

What does happen with, after the following moves 18... dxe4 19. Bxe4 Bxe4 20. Qxe4 moves ?
What does happen with, after the following moves 18... dxe4 19. Bxe4 Nd5 moves ?
[COLOR=White]What does happen with, after the following moves 18... dxe4 19. Bxe4 Nf5 moves ? [/COLOR]
, by itself.

Edit - By not capturing with the other pieces quickly enough, can you rather aim out with towards for a longer enough game, the way, this time ,
[COLOR=white] , that which being conveyed out, opened off ,
! Ofr[/COLOR]

science_man_88 · 2013-02-08, 17:13

[QUOTE=Raman;328553]What does happen with, after the following moves 18... dxe4 19. Bxe4 Bxe4 20. Qxe4 moves ?
What does happen with, after the following moves 18... dxe4 19. Bxe4 Nd5 moves ?
[COLOR=White]What does happen with, after the following moves 18... dxe4 19. Bxe4 Nf5 moves ? [/COLOR]
, by itself.

Edit - By not capturing with the other pieces quickly enough, can you rather aim out with towards for a longer enough game, the way, this time ,
[COLOR=white] , that which being conveyed out, opened off ,
! Ofr[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

my concern was that they capture our queen and possibly get to check us eventually.

science_man_88 · 2013-02-10, 13:14

another thing:

Rd1 - attack of queen possible.

LaurV · 2013-02-11, 05:03

[QUOTE=science_man_88;328810]another thing:

Rd1 - attack of queen possible.[/QUOTE]
See posts #12, #13

LaurV · 2013-02-11, 05:18

[QUOTE=Raman;328553]What does happen with, after the following moves 18... dxe4 19. Bxe4[COLOR=Red][B] Bxe4 [/B][/COLOR]20. Qxe4 moves ?
[/QUOTE]
That seems to me a sure path to draw. We exchange powerful bishop (hitting/heating the king's corner), with their not-so-fearful (at least for now) bishop, and help them to develop the queen. After the exchange, then what? we can't capture in f4, he puts the knight there and target the fork on Ne6, there is nothing we can do to avoid the heat his queen and knight can cause on our king's corner, except continuing to exchange material, like we can force the queen exchange with Qd3, etc. :no: No, no... That will be going fast to be a draw.

OTOH, on the path/version with 19...[B][COLOR=Red]Nd5[/COLOR][/B], their queen is totally useless for the next 5-6 moves (i.e. 10 or more semimoves), even if we sacrifice our queen, they can't really use their one (unless they do something stupid with it, like beating a pawn or a bishop). That path has few traps (like sacrificing our queen, and play with 3 or 4 pieces against their queen, if they are greedy**, or we may transform one of the pawns if they do not do the right things at the right time). I think that this path is a lot more juicy.... :razz: If they take the path described at the end of post #13, that would be really REALLY good for us...

[** edit: They won't expect us to sacrifice the queen, but to exchange it, and exchanging the queens is good for them, they may get a bishop from it, or at least nice position advantage (we can't get the horse out after we take the queen, they still can beat the bishop in b7). So, exchanging queens is good for them, they may go for it.]

2013-02-07, 21:56	#15
science_man_88 "Forget I exist" Jul 2009 Dartmouth NS 8,461 Posts	I see exd4 but I see how they could use it to advance their queen to e4 at least if played wrong, but I don't see anything with too much less movement that does anything, beware exd4 Bxe4 Bxe4 Qxe4 maybe if they can find a use for it. of course d4 makes a three on three but then they win. or do they maybe we can check them. anyways exd4 is fine. Last fiddled with by science_man_88 on 2013-02-07 at 22:00

2013-02-08, 15:05	#17
Raman Noodles "Mr. Tuch" Dec 2007 Chennai, India 4E9₁₆ Posts	[QUOTE=Dubslow;328432]Well LaurV suggests that after they reply Bxe4, we reply Nd5. Anyways I'll send dxe4 now.[/QUOTE] Well, 18... dxe4 move is the way to go - by now itself. But if they would have moved with 19. Bxe4 move, then I for one, would prefer with the 19... Bxe4 move, rather than by going ahead with the 19... Nd5 move, by itself. I am not against the 19... Nd5 move, but it is likely being to be my own second choice! By same way, what's your own analysis, being? [COLOR="White"]I am less likely to go for with the other moves 19... Nf5, ...[/COLOR] Last fiddled with by Raman on 2013-02-08 at 15:07

2013-02-08, 15:15	#18
Raman Noodles "Mr. Tuch" Dec 2007 Chennai, India 3×419 Posts	What does happen with, after the following moves 18... dxe4 19. Bxe4 Bxe4 20. Qxe4 moves ? What does happen with, after the following moves 18... dxe4 19. Bxe4 Nd5 moves ? [COLOR=White]What does happen with, after the following moves 18... dxe4 19. Bxe4 Nf5 moves ? [/COLOR] , by itself. Edit - By not capturing with the other pieces quickly enough, can you rather aim out with towards for a longer enough game, the way, this time , [COLOR=white] , that which being conveyed out, opened off , ! Ofr[/COLOR] Last fiddled with by Raman on 2013-02-08 at 16:09

2013-02-11, 05:18	#22
LaurV Romulan Interpreter "name field" Jun 2011 Thailand 41×251 Posts	[QUOTE=Raman;328553]What does happen with, after the following moves 18... dxe4 19. Bxe4[COLOR=Red][B] Bxe4 [/B][/COLOR]20. Qxe4 moves ? [/QUOTE] That seems to me a sure path to draw. We exchange powerful bishop (hitting/heating the king's corner), with their not-so-fearful (at least for now) bishop, and help them to develop the queen. After the exchange, then what? we can't capture in f4, he puts the knight there and target the fork on Ne6, there is nothing we can do to avoid the heat his queen and knight can cause on our king's corner, except continuing to exchange material, like we can force the queen exchange with Qd3, etc. :no: No, no... That will be going fast to be a draw. OTOH, on the path/version with 19...[B][COLOR=Red]Nd5[/COLOR][/B], their queen is totally useless for the next 5-6 moves (i.e. 10 or more semimoves), even if we sacrifice our queen, they can't really use their one (unless they do something stupid with it, like beating a pawn or a bishop). That path has few traps (like sacrificing our queen, and play with 3 or 4 pieces against their queen, if they are greedy, or we may transform one of the pawns if they do not do the right things at the right time). I think that this path is a lot more juicy.... :razz: If they take the path described at the end of post #13, that would be really REALLY good for us... [ edit: They won't expect us to sacrifice the queen, but to exchange it, and exchanging the queens is good for them, they may get a bishop from it, or at least nice position advantage (we can't get the horse out after we take the queen, they still can beat the bishop in b7). So, exchanging queens is good for them, they may go for it.] Last fiddled with by LaurV on 2013-02-11 at 05:39

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2013-02-06, 19:39	#12
Raman Noodles "Mr. Tuch" Dec 2007 Chennai, India 2351₈ Posts	If in case, 18. Qc2 dxe4 19. Rbd1 / Rfd1 moves, then how would you react to it ? By 19... Qc7 move, or 19... exf3 move ?

2013-02-07, 15:34	#13
LaurV Romulan Interpreter "name field" Jun 2011 Thailand 10291₁₀ Posts	[QUOTE=Raman;328117]If in case, 18. Qc2 dxe4 19. Rbd1 / Rfd1 moves, then how would you react to it ? By 19... Qc7 move, or 19... exf3 move ?[/QUOTE] Hey! Welcome back! I didn't know if you will return back to the team or not. I am always very optimistic when I play a game (not only chess), as you may be knowing already....:P Moving the rook from f1 should be bad for them, they lose 3 or 4 pieces there, for a queen and a couple of pawns, and I can win a game with a rook and two bishops or a rook a bishop and a knight, against a queen and (maybe) a pawn, with my eyes closed... :razz: Moving the rook from b1.... hm... this would need more study, but... does it really matter? Would they give a (second) rook for a pawn in f3? They can't move the e2 horse, if they do so, they lose the pawn in f4 and the horse is forever locked in c1. We still have sente. What sente? We have big offensive! The Z day! Anyhow, I did not look into this too much. I studied more the version when they move the rook after they take the pawn, but that seems very good for us too, like in 18.... dxe4 19.Bxe4 Nd5 20.Rbd1 Nxe3 21.Rxd8, then Raxd8! sacrifice the queen and again we have plenty of material advantage. I don't believe they can win this anymore, we have at least the draw. Depending of their next moves, we even may win it... :whistle: Last fiddled with by LaurV on 2013-02-07 at 15:47

2013-02-07, 18:45	#14
Raman Noodles "Mr. Tuch" Dec 2007 Chennai, India 3×419 Posts	If in case, 18. Qc2 dxe4 19. Bxe4 moves, then how would you react to it ? thereby By 19... Nd5 move, or [COLOR=White]by [/COLOR]19... Bxe4 move ?[STRIKE] , or [COLOR=White]with [/COLOR]19... Nf5 move ?[/STRIKE] Why? thereby

2013-02-08, 01:49	#16
Dubslow Basketry That Evening! "Bunslow the Bold" Jun 2011 40<A<43 -89<O<-88 3×29×83 Posts	[QUOTE=science_man_88;328384]I see exd4 but I see how they could use it to advance their queen to e4 at least if played wrong, but I don't see anything with too much less movement that does anything, beware exd4 Bxe4 Bxe4 Qxe4 maybe if they can find a use for it. of course d4 makes a three on three but then they win. or do they maybe we can check them. anyways exd4 is fine.[/QUOTE] Well LaurV suggests that after they reply Bxe4, we reply Nd5. Anyways I'll send dxe4 now.

2013-02-08, 17:13	#19
science_man_88 "Forget I exist" Jul 2009 Dartmouth NS 8,461 Posts	[QUOTE=Raman;328553]What does happen with, after the following moves 18... dxe4 19. Bxe4 Bxe4 20. Qxe4 moves ? What does happen with, after the following moves 18... dxe4 19. Bxe4 Nd5 moves ? [COLOR=White]What does happen with, after the following moves 18... dxe4 19. Bxe4 Nf5 moves ? [/COLOR] , by itself. Edit - By not capturing with the other pieces quickly enough, can you rather aim out with towards for a longer enough game, the way, this time , [COLOR=white] , that which being conveyed out, opened off , ! Ofr[/COLOR][/QUOTE] my concern was that they capture our queen and possibly get to check us eventually.

2013-02-10, 13:14	#20
science_man_88 "Forget I exist" Jul 2009 Dartmouth NS 8,461 Posts	another thing: Rd1 - attack of queen possible.

2013-02-11, 05:03	#21
LaurV Romulan Interpreter "name field" Jun 2011 Thailand 24063₈ Posts	[QUOTE=science_man_88;328810]another thing: Rd1 - attack of queen possible.[/QUOTE] See posts #12, #13