Anticipating white's n-th move (n >= 17)

LaurV · 2013-01-28, 16:41

Assuming they DON'T take d5, AND DON'T guard e4, we take e4 for free. Bad for them. There is a possibility they blocks the move, by Qb3, and we can not capture, because of the check. This is bad for him again, because after ...c4, 18.Qb4, dxe4, they can't beat any of the pawns. If 19.Qxc4, then ...Bd5 and he must move the queen, ... exf4 and the other pawn is as good as a queen!

If 18.Qc2,dxe4 19.Bxe4,Nd5 20.Bd2,exf4 21.Bxf4 Rxf4 22.Nxf4,Ne3 and we get back the rook and might get a free pawn from g5.

So, they must either take d5, OR guard the pawn in e4.

Guarding the pawn is either 17.Qc2, 17.Qa4, 17.Qd3 or 17.Ng3, but the last one is stupid because ...exf4 fork, and he loses a heavy piece. Qd3 is the same as Qb3, studied before. He has to retreat after we push c4, and we take e4. For the other two, we stay very well pushing 17...d4. We may exchange few pawns, but at the end, his pawns are locked and he has to run away with one of the bishops.

So, their only reasonable way is to take d5.

17.exd5.

Let's think from this perspective, our next move. (i.e. the only reasonable question is if we beat with the bishop, or with the knight, we can't let them to have a pawn for free, we can't take f4, helping him to guard the pawn by Nxf4 and treat us with the fork in e6)

Dubslow · 2013-01-31, 22:56

Good anticipation :smile:

So it looks like c4 is our response? If it seems like I don't do much analysis, I think it's because you are clearly a much better player than I am.

science_man_88 · 2013-02-01, 00:53

[QUOTE=Dubslow;326948]Good anticipation :smile:

So it looks like c4 is our response? If it seems like I don't do much analysis, I think it's because you are clearly a much better player than I am.[/QUOTE]

better than me as well I hope, but I'm a lazy person and I've got a placement that has me out a few hours some days.

LaurV · 2013-02-01, 12:37

Indeed c4. They can't defend e4 anymore now. That Qb3 was a bad move, which realizes nothing! (assuming I don't miss something really important).

science_man_88 · 2013-02-01, 13:08

[QUOTE=LaurV;327024]Indeed c4. They can't defend e4 anymore now. That Qb3 was a bad move, which realizes nothing! (assuming I don't miss something really important).[/QUOTE]

I don't see anything obvious to me, a queen attack attempt maybe but that's easy to nullify. actually I see a few useful moves that they can check our king with if they pull them off.

Dubslow · 2013-02-02, 00:23

Yeah, I don't see anything either. After 18 Q.. dxe4, their bishop is in trouble as well.

Even if they check, the Bd5 is a well-guarded defense which leads to the same outcome (and I would argue worse, since we automatically get their bishop for free).

I think it's safe to post the move now (I hope :razz:).

science_man_88 · 2013-02-02, 01:05

[QUOTE=Dubslow;327107]Yeah, I don't see anything either. After 18 Q.. dxe4, their bishop is in trouble as well.

Even if they check, the Bd5 is a well-guarded defense which leads to the same outcome (and I would argue worse, since we automatically get their bishop for free).

I think it's safe to post the move now (I hope :razz:).[/QUOTE]

I agreed it's safe but , I now see a lot of movement coming ...

18 exd Bxd5 19 Bxd5+ Qxd5 20 Rd1 is possible then we kinda need to move the queen but protect the pawn.

this will be fun.

LaurV · 2013-02-02, 06:57

[QUOTE=science_man_88;327113]
18 exd <snip> [/QUOTE]
(?!?!?) 18...cxb3 and they are doomed. They [U][B]MUST[/B][/U] (bold, uppercase and underlined) move the queen now, as said above in the first post.

Dubslow · 2013-02-06, 05:45

We seem to be on this line provided by LaurV:

18.Qc2,dxe4 19.Bxe4,Nd5 20.Bd2,exf4 21.Bxf4 Rxf4 22.Nxf4,Ne3

Any complaints to dxe4? It definitely gets our light bishop into the game.

LaurV · 2013-02-06, 13:55

No complaints, the next moves are somehow forced. I tried to analyze c4, but is bad for us, we lose all pawns in the middle (and they only lose one). There are no other alternative to dxe4. If we let them take it first (and move something else now) is "a lot of movement coming" as sm88 said. We can not push it (bad for us, as said) and we can not defend it more than it is defended already. After dxe4, they also must take it, if they don't take it now (and move the bishop) there might not be any opportunity anymore, we have the very strong Qd3, exchange the queens and bring the pawns together, one of them may make a new queen soon, or take a heavy piece with it when it dies. So, the former analysis still holds.

Raman · 2013-02-06, 15:15

18...dxe4
move

WAY TO GO! with

18. Qc2 dxe4 19. Bxe4 Bxe4 20. Qxe4
18. Qc2 dxe4 19. Bxe4 Nd5
board positions
[COLOR=White] by some same way[/COLOR]
[STRIKE]I am[/STRIKE]
[COLOR=White]being[/COLOR]
[STRIKE][B]against[/B][/STRIKE]
[COLOR=White]very much[/COLOR]
[STRIKE]move[/STRIKE]
[COLOR=White]with[/COLOR]
[STRIKE] 18. Qc2 dxe4 19. Bxe4 [B]Nf5[/B] [/STRIKE]
[STRIKE], by itself.[/STRIKE]

2013-01-28, 16:41	#1
LaurV Romulan Interpreter "name field" Jun 2011 Thailand 41·251 Posts	Anticipating white's n-th move (n >= 17) Assuming they DON'T take d5, AND DON'T guard e4, we take e4 for free. Bad for them. There is a possibility they blocks the move, by Qb3, and we can not capture, because of the check. This is bad for him again, because after ...c4, 18.Qb4, dxe4, they can't beat any of the pawns. If 19.Qxc4, then ...Bd5 and he must move the queen, ... exf4 and the other pawn is as good as a queen! If 18.Qc2,dxe4 19.Bxe4,Nd5 20.Bd2,exf4 21.Bxf4 Rxf4 22.Nxf4,Ne3 and we get back the rook and might get a free pawn from g5. So, they must either take d5, OR guard the pawn in e4. Guarding the pawn is either 17.Qc2, 17.Qa4, 17.Qd3 or 17.Ng3, but the last one is stupid because ...exf4 fork, and he loses a heavy piece. Qd3 is the same as Qb3, studied before. He has to retreat after we push c4, and we take e4. For the other two, we stay very well pushing 17...d4. We may exchange few pawns, but at the end, his pawns are locked and he has to run away with one of the bishops. So, their only reasonable way is to take d5. 17.exd5. Let's think from this perspective, our next move. (i.e. the only reasonable question is if we beat with the bishop, or with the knight, we can't let them to have a pawn for free, we can't take f4, helping him to guard the pawn by Nxf4 and treat us with the fork in e6) Last fiddled with by LaurV on 2013-01-28 at 16:49

2013-01-31, 22:56	#2
Dubslow Basketry That Evening! "Bunslow the Bold" Jun 2011 40<A<43 -89<O<-88 3·29·83 Posts	Good anticipation :smile: So it looks like c4 is our response? If it seems like I don't do much analysis, I think it's because you are clearly a much better player than I am. Last fiddled with by Dubslow on 2013-01-31 at 23:02

2013-02-01, 13:08	#5
science_man_88 "Forget I exist" Jul 2009 Dartmouth NS 8,461 Posts	[QUOTE=LaurV;327024]Indeed c4. They can't defend e4 anymore now. That Qb3 was a bad move, which realizes nothing! (assuming I don't miss something really important).[/QUOTE] I don't see anything obvious to me, a queen attack attempt maybe but that's easy to nullify. actually I see a few useful moves that they can check our king with if they pull them off. Last fiddled with by science_man_88 on 2013-02-01 at 13:09

2013-02-02, 00:23	#6
Dubslow Basketry That Evening! "Bunslow the Bold" Jun 2011 40<A<43 -89<O<-88 3×29×83 Posts	Yeah, I don't see anything either. After 18 Q.. dxe4, their bishop is in trouble as well. Even if they check, the Bd5 is a well-guarded defense which leads to the same outcome (and I would argue worse, since we automatically get their bishop for free). I think it's safe to post the move now (I hope :razz:). Last fiddled with by Dubslow on 2013-02-02 at 00:23

2013-02-02, 01:05	#7
science_man_88 "Forget I exist" Jul 2009 Dartmouth NS 8,461 Posts	[QUOTE=Dubslow;327107]Yeah, I don't see anything either. After 18 Q.. dxe4, their bishop is in trouble as well. Even if they check, the Bd5 is a well-guarded defense which leads to the same outcome (and I would argue worse, since we automatically get their bishop for free). I think it's safe to post the move now (I hope :razz:).[/QUOTE] I agreed it's safe but , I now see a lot of movement coming ... 18 exd Bxd5 19 Bxd5+ Qxd5 20 Rd1 is possible then we kinda need to move the queen but protect the pawn. this will be fun. Last fiddled with by science_man_88 on 2013-02-02 at 01:06

2013-02-01, 00:53	#3
science_man_88 "Forget I exist" Jul 2009 Dartmouth NS 20415₈ Posts	[QUOTE=Dubslow;326948]Good anticipation :smile: So it looks like c4 is our response? If it seems like I don't do much analysis, I think it's because you are clearly a much better player than I am.[/QUOTE] better than me as well I hope, but I'm a lazy person and I've got a placement that has me out a few hours some days.

2013-02-01, 12:37	#4
LaurV Romulan Interpreter "name field" Jun 2011 Thailand 10100000110011₂ Posts	Indeed c4. They can't defend e4 anymore now. That Qb3 was a bad move, which realizes nothing! (assuming I don't miss something really important).

2013-02-02, 06:57	#8
LaurV Romulan Interpreter "name field" Jun 2011 Thailand 41·251 Posts	[QUOTE=science_man_88;327113] 18 exd <snip> [/QUOTE] (?!?!?) 18...cxb3 and they are doomed. They [U][B]MUST[/B][/U] (bold, uppercase and underlined) move the queen now, as said above in the first post. Last fiddled with by LaurV on 2013-02-02 at 06:58

2013-02-06, 05:45	#9
Dubslow Basketry That Evening! "Bunslow the Bold" Jun 2011 40<A<43 -89<O<-88 3·29·83 Posts	We seem to be on this line provided by LaurV: 18.Qc2,dxe4 19.Bxe4,Nd5 20.Bd2,exf4 21.Bxf4 Rxf4 22.Nxf4,Ne3 Any complaints to dxe4? It definitely gets our light bishop into the game.

2013-02-06, 13:55	#10
LaurV Romulan Interpreter "name field" Jun 2011 Thailand 10100000110011₂ Posts	No complaints, the next moves are somehow forced. I tried to analyze c4, but is bad for us, we lose all pawns in the middle (and they only lose one). There are no other alternative to dxe4. If we let them take it first (and move something else now) is "a lot of movement coming" as sm88 said. We can not push it (bad for us, as said) and we can not defend it more than it is defended already. After dxe4, they also must take it, if they don't take it now (and move the bishop) there might not be any opportunity anymore, we have the very strong Qd3, exchange the queens and bring the pawns together, one of them may make a new queen soon, or take a heavy piece with it when it dies. So, the former analysis still holds. Last fiddled with by LaurV on 2013-02-06 at 14:04

2013-02-06, 15:15	#11
Raman Noodles "Mr. Tuch" Dec 2007 Chennai, India 3·419 Posts	18...dxe4 move WAY TO GO! with 18. Qc2 dxe4 19. Bxe4 Bxe4 20. Qxe4 18. Qc2 dxe4 19. Bxe4 Nd5 board positions [COLOR=White] by some same way[/COLOR] [STRIKE]I am[/STRIKE] [COLOR=White]being[/COLOR] [STRIKE][B]against[/B][/STRIKE] [COLOR=White]very much[/COLOR] [STRIKE]move[/STRIKE] [COLOR=White]with[/COLOR] [STRIKE] 18. Qc2 dxe4 19. Bxe4 [B]Nf5[/B] [/STRIKE] [STRIKE], by itself.[/STRIKE] Last fiddled with by Raman on 2013-02-06 at 15:27

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