Move 15 - Page 3

richs · 2013-01-18, 14:57

I still like c3 better.

Zeta-Flux · 2013-01-18, 15:51

15. Bg2 fxe4
16. Ng3 d5
17. dxe4

all threats seem to be neutralized, and we seem to be in a good spot.

Brian-E · 2013-01-18, 15:52

If I'm not mistaken, we still have a little over 24 hours to make our move. That's at least the same for all of us in our different time zones.:smile:

But you're right, David, time is pressing. I'll keep an eye on things just in case we run right up to the deadline, and I'll post the move and mail Batalov if it seems your exam pressure is keeping you away from the forum (fully understandably! and best of luck!). And of course Rich and Zeta-Flux should feel free to do the same if we're out of time too.

Right now we have three of us in favour of 15.c3, but let's see if Zeta-Flux disagrees and persuades us to think again.

Brian-E · 2013-01-18, 15:55

[QUOTE=Zeta-Flux;325122]15. Bg2 fxe4
16. Ng3 d5
17. dxe4

all threats seem to be neutralized, and we seem to be in a good spot.[/QUOTE]
Ah, cross posted.

But after your line, Black plays 17...d4 18.Bd2 exf4 19.Bxf4 c4 leading by transposition to the line I posted earlier, right? I don't like it.

Zeta-Flux · 2013-01-18, 16:42

why not 19. Rxf4 ?

We follow up with Qf3, Rbf1.

(If black plays Be5 immediately, we first take their rook, then move the queen and other rook.)

We now have a passed pawn, and easy control of the open file

Brian-E · 2013-01-18, 16:53

[QUOTE=Zeta-Flux;325128]why not 19. Rxf4 ?

We follow up with Qf3, Rbf1.

(If black plays Be5 immediately, we first take their rook, then move the queen and other rook.)

We now have a passed pawn, and easy control of the open file[/QUOTE]
After 15.Bg2 fxe4 16.Ng3 d5 17.dxe4 d4 18.Bd2 exf4 [B]19.Rxf4[/B] Rxf4 20.Bxf4 c4 followed by ...b5 (and a4 is answered by ...a6). Yes we have a passed e pawn but it looks easy for Black to blockade (and even win - it is isolated) whereas Black's queenside majority is menacing. That's my "feel" for this position.

One important point of the move 15.c3 is that we will be able to answer ...d5 with Qb3. For example 15.c3 fxe4 16.dxe4 d5 17.Qb3 Kh8 18.exd5 Nxd5 19.Rbd1.

Zeta-Flux · 2013-01-18, 19:00

Sounds like we are agreed that c3 is the right move then. :-)

Zeta-Flux · 2013-01-18, 19:06

What about

15. c3 fxe4
16. dxe4 d5
17. Qb3 c4

henryzz · 2013-01-18, 20:04

Looks like we should do c3 then. I will wait until just before I go to bed to post in case someone thinks of a good Bg2 line.

Zeta-Flux · 2013-01-18, 20:54

With the line I just gave, I think exf5 is our best move, or at least I don't think Qb3 gets us much.

Brian-E · 2013-01-18, 20:59

[QUOTE=Zeta-Flux;325143]What about

15. c3 fxe4
16. dxe4 d5
17. Qb3 c4[/QUOTE]
I think 18.Qc2 is okay then. Black doesn't get anything rolling on the queenside or in the centre (18...d4? 19.cxd4 exd4 20.Qxc4+) and we gain time on the soon-to-be-opened d file by attacking the queen with a rook on d1. The advanced pawn on c4 is merely a static object of attack.

2013-01-18, 15:55	#26
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 6316₈ Posts	[QUOTE=Zeta-Flux;325122]15. Bg2 fxe4 16. Ng3 d5 17. dxe4 all threats seem to be neutralized, and we seem to be in a good spot.[/QUOTE] Ah, cross posted. But after your line, Black plays 17...d4 18.Bd2 exf4 19.Bxf4 c4 leading by transposition to the line I posted earlier, right? I don't like it. Last fiddled with by Brian-E on 2013-01-18 at 15:57 Reason: forgot the ...exf4 Bxf4 moves

2013-01-18, 20:04	#31
henryzz Just call me Henry "David" Sep 2007 Liverpool (GMT/BST) 3·23·89 Posts	Looks like we should do c3 then. I will wait until just before I go to bed to post in case someone thinks of a good Bg2 line. Last fiddled with by henryzz on 2013-01-18 at 21:51

2013-01-18, 20:54	#32
Zeta-Flux May 2003 7×13×17 Posts	With the line I just gave, I think exf5 is our best move, or at least I don't think Qb3 gets us much. Last fiddled with by Zeta-Flux on 2013-01-18 at 21:05

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2013-01-18, 14:57	#23
richs "Rich" Aug 2002 Benicia, California 2·859 Posts	I still like c3 better.

2013-01-18, 15:51	#24
Zeta-Flux May 2003 60B₁₆ Posts	15. Bg2 fxe4 16. Ng3 d5 17. dxe4 all threats seem to be neutralized, and we seem to be in a good spot.

2013-01-18, 15:52	#25
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2×11×149 Posts	If I'm not mistaken, we still have a little over 24 hours to make our move. That's at least the same for all of us in our different time zones.:smile: But you're right, David, time is pressing. I'll keep an eye on things just in case we run right up to the deadline, and I'll post the move and mail Batalov if it seems your exam pressure is keeping you away from the forum (fully understandably! and best of luck!). And of course Rich and Zeta-Flux should feel free to do the same if we're out of time too. Right now we have three of us in favour of 15.c3, but let's see if Zeta-Flux disagrees and persuades us to think again.

2013-01-18, 16:42	#27
Zeta-Flux May 2003 7·13·17 Posts	why not 19. Rxf4 ? We follow up with Qf3, Rbf1. (If black plays Be5 immediately, we first take their rook, then move the queen and other rook.) We now have a passed pawn, and easy control of the open file

2013-01-18, 16:53	#28
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 3278₁₀ Posts	[QUOTE=Zeta-Flux;325128]why not 19. Rxf4 ? We follow up with Qf3, Rbf1. (If black plays Be5 immediately, we first take their rook, then move the queen and other rook.) We now have a passed pawn, and easy control of the open file[/QUOTE] After 15.Bg2 fxe4 16.Ng3 d5 17.dxe4 d4 18.Bd2 exf4 [B]19.Rxf4[/B] Rxf4 20.Bxf4 c4 followed by ...b5 (and a4 is answered by ...a6). Yes we have a passed e pawn but it looks easy for Black to blockade (and even win - it is isolated) whereas Black's queenside majority is menacing. That's my "feel" for this position. One important point of the move 15.c3 is that we will be able to answer ...d5 with Qb3. For example 15.c3 fxe4 16.dxe4 d5 17.Qb3 Kh8 18.exd5 Nxd5 19.Rbd1.

2013-01-18, 19:00	#29
Zeta-Flux May 2003 3013₈ Posts	Sounds like we are agreed that c3 is the right move then. :-)

2013-01-18, 19:06	#30
Zeta-Flux May 2003 60B₁₆ Posts	What about 15. c3 fxe4 16. dxe4 d5 17. Qb3 c4

2013-01-18, 20:59	#33
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 110011001110₂ Posts	[QUOTE=Zeta-Flux;325143]What about 15. c3 fxe4 16. dxe4 d5 17. Qb3 c4[/QUOTE] I think 18.Qc2 is okay then. Black doesn't get anything rolling on the queenside or in the centre (18...d4? 19.cxd4 exd4 20.Qxc4+) and we gain time on the soon-to-be-opened d file by attacking the queen with a rook on d1. The advanced pawn on c4 is merely a static object of attack.