Black's tenth move - Page 3

Dubslow · 2012-12-12, 04:54

Like Xyzzy said, book, cook, and rook all rhyme.

I'm thinking either b6 or Bd7. SM88, if you're limited to these two choices, what would you pick? If I had to pick, I'd probably go with Bd7.

Raman · 2012-12-12, 09:33

I think that 10...b6 is being a good move,
because there are lot of opportunities for our own opponent to blunder
and then for us to take with the advantage.

Not[COLOR=White] that [/COLOR]so many chances that exists for the other moves, if in case
they were to go wrong with

LaurV · 2012-12-12, 10:23

10...b6 is a "safe" move, first of all. Our position in the center is too strong to self-damage it. Let [U]them[/U] make the mistake. That guy called [URL="http://chessville.com/reviews/ThreeTimesASicilian.htm"]Mr. Richard Palliser[/URL] is not stupid at all !!

Edit: I tell you they are going to advance the queen a little, or retreat the black square bishop a little, or do some "in house" move which does not affect the center, because they are also afraid to "take the wolf/lion by the tail" (do you have this in English?).

science_man_88 · 2012-12-12, 14:03

Dubslow I don't really care for for either but if I had to choose immediately it would look as though Bd7 helps more as it stops one of the knights cold movement wise ( it attacks 2 places where movement wasn't bad before for the knight), bd6 only seems to block/defend the queen in, but so far it looks pretty safe even in the open position.

LaurV · 2012-12-12, 16:01

Bd7 does not "stop the knight", he can't move that knight in front without losing it, bishop or not bishop. He moved the rook because he intends to move the knight back, to e2, to attack our knight which is very dangerous for him. The reason why Bd7 is a good move is because later we can move Rc8 and protect the pawn in c5, so we can push d5. That is why Bd7 is a good move.

However, if he will respond with Ne2, he has 3 attacks on our horse, and we have only 2 defenses, therefore we lose pawn for free there if we do nothing about. We can't pull it back, so we can defend it once more with Qb6, or Nec6 or e5. Either way is futile as he has the very strong push c3 (as I said before) and eventually we have to exchange the horse for one of his horses. The best is to exchange it for the one in f3, as that is the most advanced and bothersome for us, also by capturing our horse from there he does not develop any piece (contrary to the one in e2, where he develops very well the queen).

Under this light, imagine:
Version A:
10...Bd7, 11.Ne2 Nxf3, 12.Bxf3. What we do next? We can't push d5 because we lose the pawn in c5, we can't push e5, f5, f6, the horse has no go, linking the queen in b6 will be stupid. We can only move 12...Rc8 (to defend c5 and get the column, so later we can push d5, which will be a good version, but we lost the center) or..... guess what! or 12...b6. There are no other moves. Assuming we play b6, please keep in mind this FINAL position, call it "Position Z". Here he is to move, and he can do whatever he likes.

Version B: this is the known path, he moved the rook because he wants to move the knight, and he don't want us moving our knight letting his pawn in b2 under attack from the bishop in g7. Therefore, the path is clear:
10...b6, 11.Ne2 Nxf3, 12.Bxf3. Forced. See the analysis before. Here we are to move, and IF WE CONSIDER, we can play 12...Bd7 and get THE SAME position as "Position Z", or we can play SOMETHING ELSE (12...Bb7 is also very good!).

Now you understand why 10...b6 is better then 10...Bd7? It gave us the same position at the end, but with some ADDITIONAL options. In version A white gets a move almost for free.

Dubslow · 2012-12-12, 16:26

Okay, so it seems like b6 is the leader at the moment.

Does anybody else mind if we just do it?

Raman · 2012-12-12, 16:50

Yes, please go ahead with it, in that move.

But, before you do it, I would like you to vote for an option / select a choice
from among the poll, that move that you would normally do from within this position,
without other's interference.

Or else otherwise, you can be able to just simply change with an option if in that case
your desired move result is not being there; over poll thereby; and then vote for
this option result!

Dubslow · 2012-12-12, 19:59

I probably would have pushed one of the [def] pawns; I'm not very good :razz: (My dad was once a ~2100, but his talent wasn't passed on :razz:)

science_man_88 · 2012-12-12, 22:56

[QUOTE=Dubslow;321464]I probably would have pushed one of the [def] pawns; I'm not very good :razz: (My dad was once a ~2100, but his talent wasn't passed on :razz:)[/QUOTE]

don't worry I suck at chess as well the highest on the chess site I went to before the game the highest I got was 1300 if that. 1200 is what they started it at.

Raman · 2012-12-13, 13:15

[QUOTE=Dubslow;321464]I probably would have pushed one of the [def] pawns; I'm not very good :razz: (My dad was once a ~2100, but his talent wasn't passed on :razz:)[/QUOTE]

So, you mean without other people's interference, you would have probably voted for the black's tenth move to be something like, such as 10...d5 move?

We can be able to trace out with our opponent's own next move - White's eleventh move - over hereby...

science_man_88 · 2012-12-13, 13:41

[QUOTE=Raman;321567]So, you mean without other people's interference, you would have probably voted for the black's tenth move to be something like, such as 10...d5 move?

We can be able to trace out with our opponent's own next move - White's eleventh move - over hereby...[/QUOTE]

raman I'm guessing that link is to a restricted forum since I clicked on it because it has interesting syntax and got the need for a administrative password. though thanks for the syntax lesson now I know that I posted over 800 times in pari commands.

View Poll Results: Black's tenth move
10...Bd7	1	33.33%
10...Nec6	0	0%
10...Rb8	1	33.33%
10...Qb6	0	0%
10...Qa5	0	0%
10...a6	0	0%
10...Nxf3+	0	0%
10...d5	0	0%
10...Qc7	0	0%
10...b6	1	33.33%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 3. You may not vote on this poll

2012-12-12, 04:54	#23
Dubslow Basketry That Evening! "Bunslow the Bold" Jun 2011 40<A<43 -89<O<-88 3·29·83 Posts	Like Xyzzy said, book, cook, and rook all rhyme. I'm thinking either b6 or Bd7. SM88, if you're limited to these two choices, what would you pick? If I had to pick, I'd probably go with Bd7. Last fiddled with by Dubslow on 2012-12-12 at 05:18

2012-12-12, 09:33	#24
Raman Noodles "Mr. Tuch" Dec 2007 Chennai, India 3×419 Posts	I think that 10...b6 is being a good move, because there are lot of opportunities for our own opponent to blunder and then for us to take with the advantage. Not[COLOR=White] that [/COLOR]so many chances that exists for the other moves, if in case they were to go wrong with Last fiddled with by Raman on 2012-12-12 at 09:34

2012-12-12, 10:23	#25
LaurV Romulan Interpreter "name field" Jun 2011 Thailand 41×251 Posts	10...b6 is a "safe" move, first of all. Our position in the center is too strong to self-damage it. Let [U]them[/U] make the mistake. That guy called [URL="http://chessville.com/reviews/ThreeTimesASicilian.htm"]Mr. Richard Palliser[/URL] is not stupid at all !! Edit: I tell you they are going to advance the queen a little, or retreat the black square bishop a little, or do some "in house" move which does not affect the center, because they are also afraid to "take the wolf/lion by the tail" (do you have this in English?). Last fiddled with by LaurV on 2012-12-12 at 10:27

2012-12-12, 14:03	#26
science_man_88 "Forget I exist" Jul 2009 Dartmouth NS 210D₁₆ Posts	Dubslow I don't really care for for either but if I had to choose immediately it would look as though Bd7 helps more as it stops one of the knights cold movement wise ( it attacks 2 places where movement wasn't bad before for the knight), bd6 only seems to block/defend the queen in, but so far it looks pretty safe even in the open position. Last fiddled with by science_man_88 on 2012-12-12 at 14:05

2012-12-12, 16:01	#27
LaurV Romulan Interpreter "name field" Jun 2011 Thailand 41×251 Posts	Bd7 does not "stop the knight", he can't move that knight in front without losing it, bishop or not bishop. He moved the rook because he intends to move the knight back, to e2, to attack our knight which is very dangerous for him. The reason why Bd7 is a good move is because later we can move Rc8 and protect the pawn in c5, so we can push d5. That is why Bd7 is a good move. However, if he will respond with Ne2, he has 3 attacks on our horse, and we have only 2 defenses, therefore we lose pawn for free there if we do nothing about. We can't pull it back, so we can defend it once more with Qb6, or Nec6 or e5. Either way is futile as he has the very strong push c3 (as I said before) and eventually we have to exchange the horse for one of his horses. The best is to exchange it for the one in f3, as that is the most advanced and bothersome for us, also by capturing our horse from there he does not develop any piece (contrary to the one in e2, where he develops very well the queen). Under this light, imagine: Version A: 10...Bd7, 11.Ne2 Nxf3, 12.Bxf3. What we do next? We can't push d5 because we lose the pawn in c5, we can't push e5, f5, f6, the horse has no go, linking the queen in b6 will be stupid. We can only move 12...Rc8 (to defend c5 and get the column, so later we can push d5, which will be a good version, but we lost the center) or..... guess what! or 12...b6. There are no other moves. Assuming we play b6, please keep in mind this FINAL position, call it "Position Z". Here he is to move, and he can do whatever he likes. Version B: this is the known path, he moved the rook because he wants to move the knight, and he don't want us moving our knight letting his pawn in b2 under attack from the bishop in g7. Therefore, the path is clear: 10...b6, 11.Ne2 Nxf3, 12.Bxf3. Forced. See the analysis before. Here we are to move, and IF WE CONSIDER, we can play 12...Bd7 and get THE SAME position as "Position Z", or we can play SOMETHING ELSE (12...Bb7 is also very good!). Now you understand why 10...b6 is better then 10...Bd7? It gave us the same position at the end, but with some ADDITIONAL options. In version A white gets a move almost for free. Last fiddled with by LaurV on 2012-12-12 at 16:08 Reason: N->B grrrr

2012-12-12, 16:26	#28
Dubslow Basketry That Evening! "Bunslow the Bold" Jun 2011 40<A<43 -89<O<-88 3·29·83 Posts	Okay, so it seems like b6 is the leader at the moment. Does anybody else mind if we just do it?

2012-12-12, 16:50	#29
Raman Noodles "Mr. Tuch" Dec 2007 Chennai, India 3·419 Posts	Yes, please go ahead with it, in that move. But, before you do it, I would like you to vote for an option / select a choice from among the poll, that move that you would normally do from within this position, without other's interference. Or else otherwise, you can be able to just simply change with an option if in that case your desired move result is not being there; over poll thereby; and then vote for this option result!

2012-12-12, 19:59	#30
Dubslow Basketry That Evening! "Bunslow the Bold" Jun 2011 40<A<43 -89<O<-88 3×29×83 Posts	I probably would have pushed one of the [def] pawns; I'm not very good :razz: (My dad was once a ~2100, but his talent wasn't passed on :razz:)

2012-12-12, 22:56	#31
science_man_88 "Forget I exist" Jul 2009 Dartmouth NS 8,461 Posts	[QUOTE=Dubslow;321464]I probably would have pushed one of the [def] pawns; I'm not very good :razz: (My dad was once a ~2100, but his talent wasn't passed on :razz:)[/QUOTE] don't worry I suck at chess as well the highest on the chess site I went to before the game the highest I got was 1300 if that. 1200 is what they started it at.

2012-12-13, 13:15	#32
Raman Noodles "Mr. Tuch" Dec 2007 Chennai, India 2351₈ Posts	[QUOTE=Dubslow;321464]I probably would have pushed one of the [def] pawns; I'm not very good :razz: (My dad was once a ~2100, but his talent wasn't passed on :razz:)[/QUOTE] So, you mean without other people's interference, you would have probably voted for the black's tenth move to be something like, such as 10...d5 move? We can be able to trace out with our opponent's own next move - White's eleventh move - over hereby... Last fiddled with by Dubslow on 2012-12-13 at 20:30 Reason: don't post links like that, not into a private forum

2012-12-13, 13:41	#33
science_man_88 "Forget I exist" Jul 2009 Dartmouth NS 8,461 Posts	[QUOTE=Raman;321567]So, you mean without other people's interference, you would have probably voted for the black's tenth move to be something like, such as 10...d5 move? We can be able to trace out with our opponent's own next move - White's eleventh move - over hereby...[/QUOTE] raman I'm guessing that link is to a restricted forum since I clicked on it because it has interesting syntax and got the need for a administrative password. though thanks for the syntax lesson now I know that I posted over 800 times in pari commands. Last fiddled with by Dubslow on 2012-12-13 at 20:30 Reason: see previous post

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