Black's tenth move

Raman · 2012-12-09, 08:07

White's tenth move is being 10. Rb1
:camping: "TENT" :smile:
Black's tenth move is being ...
:drama:

Raman · 2012-12-09, 12:50

The other reasonable moves not being given in inside the poll side are being 10...e5 moves, 10...f5, 10...h6...

science_man_88 · 2012-12-09, 14:32

[QUOTE=Raman;321081]The other reasonable moves not being given in inside the poll side are being 10...e5 moves, 10...f5, 10...h6...[/QUOTE]

interesting only 13 out of at least 35 are reasonable ?

LaurV · 2012-12-09, 17:22

My pick is 10...b6. (you know i like to push them, don't you? :razz:)

10...Bd7. Why did they move the rock? There can be two reasons, one is to protect the pawn on b2, other to attack the pawn on b7 (beside of the strategic reason to take the column) therefore trying to block out bishop in c8. Imagine for a moment that he did not move the rock, and that there is no bishop in c8. He could now do Ne2, then we only could Nxf3, otherwise he push the pawn in c and we need to retreat the horse. After he captures the horse in f3, then black Bxb2, after that he can move the rock to b1 and the bishop runs away, he could take Rxb7 and have a little advantage in the center. So, on that version we could not move the bishop out of c8 without losing the center. His 10.Rb1 move seems to be made just to allow us to move the bishop out of c8, and it seems like a trap for me. After black 10...Bd7, 11.Ne2, he has two very strong pushes c3 and e5, in both of them we have to retreat the horse and lose all the insight "behind of the enemy lines". So, for this variant, our best reply would be 11...Nxf3+. After he take it, we still need to push 12...b6, no other good move, but we somehow lost the advantage in the center. I say "somehow", because now we have the open bishop lines, so this variant 10...Bd7 is not bad, I would say is the [U]second[/U] best one [U](after[/U] 10...b6).

10...Nec6 is weak. After he pushed e5 we can't take his horse in f3 anymore because Qxf3 and we help him to develop the queen, so we still need to run away with the horse, like Nf5, helping him to fortress the king better with Bf2.

10...Qa5 or Qb6 - I see no reason to develop the queen now. Putting it in a5 is futile, he pushes a3 for now, and after he moves Bd2 we have to retreat it back or he gets a move for free on the white-bishop-black-queen link with the horse in c3. Putting it in b6 might be good (in fact if I think more, 10...Qb6 might be an interesting move), but need more study, and seems a bit on the path of his rock, it is putting more stress on his b2, but that we could not take (like Bg7xb2 in the far future) without placing the bishop on the link. So, I see no reason to develop the queen right now.

10...Nxf3+. Isn't too early? Our "only" advantage/strength in the center is that horse, peeking (and poke-ing? hehe, peek and poke were two instructions for an old assembly language during my times) behind enemy lines. He can't take it with the horse because we fork with the pawn and get material advantage. He can't take it with the bishop, because he lose the opportunity to Bf2 and fortress the king better, and we may place a strong pawn at d4. Why should we give this advantage out, by moving the horse? Our target for now is to keep it there, and to forbid him pushing the pawns in c3 or e5, both of them will "force" us to capture Nxf3 later, or move Nd4f5. But for now, the horse is well placed.

10...Qc7 or Qd7 they might be good moves, but need more study. Again, I see no reason to develop the queen now, unless forced majeure (is this an English word?).

10...Rb8 this move is good and it may create advantage for us if he chose to develop on the right flank. Well, his left flank, how is it correct to talk? always see the board from the white perspective, like in the books? that would be a bit confusing if I play black. Is is right if I say queen's flank and king's flank?

edit: this English chess notations are quite confusing to me and I have to think about, each time I write. We use to denote "N" the bishop! (ro: "nebun", translated as "clown", the king's clown and the queen's clown, we sometimes call it "officer" like the army officer, but the common name is "nebun", i.e. the clown), and "R" is usually the king, (ro: "rege", same root as in italian, spanish and french, from which the english "regal" or "royal" is derived). We call the rock "T" (same root as the english "tower"), and the horse "C" (cal, cavalo, :smile: from which "chevalier" comes). So, if you find some analysis which does not make sense, please bear this in mind, R may be referring mistakenly to the king, or N may be referring mistakenly to the "nebun" clowns/officers/bishops. I try not to mix them, but I am getting older... I already edited it 3 times to change N's into B's.

edit 4: That is why I like pushing pawns... :razz:

Raman · 2012-12-09, 17:59

10...b6 move is your own choice being?

The reason I do not prefer that move is being that, after White's moves 11. e5 dxe5 12. Nxe5, etc. then it leaves the black's rook at the a8 square, quite directly to be attack under the White bishop at g2 square.

First we might safeguard with the Black rook at the a8 square with, 10...Rb8, or 10...Qc7 - protect the b-pawn under attack by the White bishop at g2 square, before moving with b6, Bb7 moves, ...

My own preferred choices for the moves, black's tenth moves would be
10...Rb8, 10...Nec6, 10...Bd7, 10...d5, or even probably 10...Qc7 moves, maybe, with. Or otherwise play with 10...e5 move, so that white cannot push with the moves 11. e5 ...

Another threat that is being imminent should need to be noted, when white plays the move 11. Qd2, then 12. f5 then 13. Bh6 Bxh6 14. Qxh6, if we are being careless enough then, this thing can happen, stuff for with the following moves, 15. Ng5, and then sooner afterwards with move 16. Qxh7#. We can do with the move 11...f5 in order to stop with it, that if in this case, it that thing and then stuff

LaurV · 2012-12-09, 18:29

[QUOTE=Raman;321098]My own preferred choices for the moves, black's tenth moves would be 10...Rb8, 10...Nec6, 10...Bd7, 10...d5, or even probably 10...Qc7[/QUOTE]

My preferred choice is still 10...b6, after looking in your analysis. If you don't like it, then I will look again into 10...Rb8 and 10...d5. About the other two: I said already that 10...Bd7 is my second choice, we may go for it if we do not reach a consensus for another move. About 10...Nec6, indeed THIS IS a weak move in my opinion, I don't like it at all. I will look more into Rb8 and d5 tomorrow evening after work, now it is too late here (1:30AM) and I need some sleep.

Raman · 2012-12-09, 18:49

Indeed there is being some advantage to black's side after playing with black's tenth move for the 10...b6 move, with

10...b6 11. Nxd4 cxd4 12. e5 dxe3 13. Bxa8 d5 14. Ne4 Ba6 15. Nf6+ Bxf6 16. exf6 Nf5 17. c3 Qxa8 18. g4 Nh6 19. g5 Nf5 -/+

Regarding with the black's tenth move 10...b6

Black will have advantage if in case White blunders with move 11. Nxd4
White will have slight advantage if in case he carries on out with the right moving track 11. e5

Want to set a trap, and then test on, trial out?

Dubslow · 2012-12-09, 20:58

What about 10...b6 11. e5 Bb7?

I think that if we push b6, then we musn't respond to e5 with dxe5.

[def]5 are preferable to b6, I think.

Raman · 2012-12-09, 22:23

What about 10...b6 11. e5 Bb7?
[COLOR=White] What about 10...b6 11. e5 Bb7?[/COLOR]
10...b6 11. e5 Nxf3+ 12. Qxf3 Rb8
10...b6 11. e5 Ndf5 12. Bf2 Bb7

LaurV · 2012-12-10, 07:32

[QUOTE=Raman;321107]10...b6 11. Nxd4 cxd4 12. e5 dxe3 13. Bxa8 d5 14. Ne4 Ba6 15. Nf6+ Bxf6 16. exf6 Nf5 17. c3 Qxa8 18. g4 Nh6 19. g5 Nf5 -/+
[/QUOTE]
I have no chess board at the office, and no time for that, so the analysis still have to wait until I get home (4-5 hours, now lunch break) but man, grr.... are you sure you did all that long line "by hand"? I don;t want that later we lose because the adversary may prove that we used some chess engine...

Raman · 2012-12-10, 08:15

Please notice that the White's pawn pushing move "e5" may serve with two purposes
1. One is being to loosen the threat of the main-diagonal, with the White's bishop at g2 square, in order to threaten with the black's rook at a8 square, in order to attack with the black's pawn at b7 square.
2. Other is being to stop our own black's protection of the black knight at d4 square, by with the black's bishop at g7 square. We need to take with the opponent's knight at g3 square, or retreat with our own black knight back,
if in case this move is being done, as soon as possible, if we do not do / respond / reply back with black's move dxe5 move, with black's move Bxe5 move, or otherwise else something like with it, that if in this case, it that thing and then stuff

View Poll Results: Black's tenth move
10...Bd7	1	33.33%
10...Nec6	0	0%
10...Rb8	1	33.33%
10...Qb6	0	0%
10...Qa5	0	0%
10...a6	0	0%
10...Nxf3+	0	0%
10...d5	0	0%
10...Qc7	0	0%
10...b6	1	33.33%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 3. You may not vote on this poll

2012-12-09, 08:07	#1
Raman Noodles "Mr. Tuch" Dec 2007 Chennai, India 3×419 Posts	Black's tenth move White's tenth move is being 10. Rb1 :camping: "TENT" :smile: Black's tenth move is being ... :drama:

2012-12-09, 17:22	#4
LaurV Romulan Interpreter "name field" Jun 2011 Thailand 10100000110011₂ Posts	My pick is 10...b6. (you know i like to push them, don't you? :razz:) 10...Bd7. Why did they move the rock? There can be two reasons, one is to protect the pawn on b2, other to attack the pawn on b7 (beside of the strategic reason to take the column) therefore trying to block out bishop in c8. Imagine for a moment that he did not move the rock, and that there is no bishop in c8. He could now do Ne2, then we only could Nxf3, otherwise he push the pawn in c and we need to retreat the horse. After he captures the horse in f3, then black Bxb2, after that he can move the rock to b1 and the bishop runs away, he could take Rxb7 and have a little advantage in the center. So, on that version we could not move the bishop out of c8 without losing the center. His 10.Rb1 move seems to be made just to allow us to move the bishop out of c8, and it seems like a trap for me. After black 10...Bd7, 11.Ne2, he has two very strong pushes c3 and e5, in both of them we have to retreat the horse and lose all the insight "behind of the enemy lines". So, for this variant, our best reply would be 11...Nxf3+. After he take it, we still need to push 12...b6, no other good move, but we somehow lost the advantage in the center. I say "somehow", because now we have the open bishop lines, so this variant 10...Bd7 is not bad, I would say is the [U]second[/U] best one [U](after[/U] 10...b6). 10...Nec6 is weak. After he pushed e5 we can't take his horse in f3 anymore because Qxf3 and we help him to develop the queen, so we still need to run away with the horse, like Nf5, helping him to fortress the king better with Bf2. 10...Qa5 or Qb6 - I see no reason to develop the queen now. Putting it in a5 is futile, he pushes a3 for now, and after he moves Bd2 we have to retreat it back or he gets a move for free on the white-bishop-black-queen link with the horse in c3. Putting it in b6 might be good (in fact if I think more, 10...Qb6 might be an interesting move), but need more study, and seems a bit on the path of his rock, it is putting more stress on his b2, but that we could not take (like Bg7xb2 in the far future) without placing the bishop on the link. So, I see no reason to develop the queen right now. 10...Nxf3+. Isn't too early? Our "only" advantage/strength in the center is that horse, peeking (and poke-ing? hehe, peek and poke were two instructions for an old assembly language during my times) behind enemy lines. He can't take it with the horse because we fork with the pawn and get material advantage. He can't take it with the bishop, because he lose the opportunity to Bf2 and fortress the king better, and we may place a strong pawn at d4. Why should we give this advantage out, by moving the horse? Our target for now is to keep it there, and to forbid him pushing the pawns in c3 or e5, both of them will "force" us to capture Nxf3 later, or move Nd4f5. But for now, the horse is well placed. 10...Qc7 or Qd7 they might be good moves, but need more study. Again, I see no reason to develop the queen now, unless forced majeure (is this an English word?). 10...Rb8 this move is good and it may create advantage for us if he chose to develop on the right flank. Well, his left flank, how is it correct to talk? always see the board from the white perspective, like in the books? that would be a bit confusing if I play black. Is is right if I say queen's flank and king's flank? edit: this English chess notations are quite confusing to me and I have to think about, each time I write. We use to denote "N" the bishop! (ro: "nebun", translated as "clown", the king's clown and the queen's clown, we sometimes call it "officer" like the army officer, but the common name is "nebun", i.e. the clown), and "R" is usually the king, (ro: "rege", same root as in italian, spanish and french, from which the english "regal" or "royal" is derived). We call the rock "T" (same root as the english "tower"), and the horse "C" (cal, cavalo, :smile: from which "chevalier" comes). So, if you find some analysis which does not make sense, please bear this in mind, R may be referring mistakenly to the king, or N may be referring mistakenly to the "nebun" clowns/officers/bishops. I try not to mix them, but I am getting older... I already edited it 3 times to change N's into B's. edit 4: That is why I like pushing pawns... :razz: Last fiddled with by Dubslow on 2012-12-12 at 05:11 Reason: just found an "Nb7" (now it's "Bd7")

2012-12-09, 17:59	#5
Raman Noodles "Mr. Tuch" Dec 2007 Chennai, India 10011101001₂ Posts	10...b6 move is your own choice being? The reason I do not prefer that move is being that, after White's moves 11. e5 dxe5 12. Nxe5, etc. then it leaves the black's rook at the a8 square, quite directly to be attack under the White bishop at g2 square. First we might safeguard with the Black rook at the a8 square with, 10...Rb8, or 10...Qc7 - protect the b-pawn under attack by the White bishop at g2 square, before moving with b6, Bb7 moves, ... My own preferred choices for the moves, black's tenth moves would be 10...Rb8, 10...Nec6, 10...Bd7, 10...d5, or even probably 10...Qc7 moves, maybe, with. Or otherwise play with 10...e5 move, so that white cannot push with the moves 11. e5 ... Another threat that is being imminent should need to be noted, when white plays the move 11. Qd2, then 12. f5 then 13. Bh6 Bxh6 14. Qxh6, if we are being careless enough then, this thing can happen, stuff for with the following moves, 15. Ng5, and then sooner afterwards with move 16. Qxh7#. We can do with the move 11...f5 in order to stop with it, that if in this case, it that thing and then stuff Last fiddled with by Raman on 2012-12-09 at 18:04

2012-12-09, 18:29	#6
LaurV Romulan Interpreter "name field" Jun 2011 Thailand 10100000110011₂ Posts	[QUOTE=Raman;321098]My own preferred choices for the moves, black's tenth moves would be 10...Rb8, 10...Nec6, 10...Bd7, 10...d5, or even probably 10...Qc7[/QUOTE] My preferred choice is still 10...b6, after looking in your analysis. If you don't like it, then I will look again into 10...Rb8 and 10...d5. About the other two: I said already that 10...Bd7 is my second choice, we may go for it if we do not reach a consensus for another move. About 10...Nec6, indeed THIS IS a weak move in my opinion, I don't like it at all. I will look more into Rb8 and d5 tomorrow evening after work, now it is too late here (1:30AM) and I need some sleep. Last fiddled with by LaurV on 2012-12-09 at 18:31

2012-12-09, 12:50	#2
Raman Noodles "Mr. Tuch" Dec 2007 Chennai, India 3·419 Posts	The other reasonable moves not being given in inside the poll side are being 10...e5 moves, 10...f5, 10...h6...

2012-12-09, 14:32	#3
science_man_88 "Forget I exist" Jul 2009 Dartmouth NS 8,461 Posts	[QUOTE=Raman;321081]The other reasonable moves not being given in inside the poll side are being 10...e5 moves, 10...f5, 10...h6...[/QUOTE] interesting only 13 out of at least 35 are reasonable ?

2012-12-09, 18:49	#7
Raman Noodles "Mr. Tuch" Dec 2007 Chennai, India 3·419 Posts	Indeed there is being some advantage to black's side after playing with black's tenth move for the 10...b6 move, with 10...b6 11. Nxd4 cxd4 12. e5 dxe3 13. Bxa8 d5 14. Ne4 Ba6 15. Nf6+ Bxf6 16. exf6 Nf5 17. c3 Qxa8 18. g4 Nh6 19. g5 Nf5 -/+ Regarding with the black's tenth move 10...b6 Black will have advantage if in case White blunders with move 11. Nxd4 White will have slight advantage if in case he carries on out with the right moving track 11. e5 Want to set a trap, and then test on, trial out? Last fiddled with by Raman on 2012-12-09 at 19:31

2012-12-09, 20:58	#8
Dubslow Basketry That Evening! "Bunslow the Bold" Jun 2011 40<A<43 -89<O<-88 3×29×83 Posts	What about 10...b6 11. e5 Bb7? I think that if we push b6, then we musn't respond to e5 with dxe5. [def]5 are preferable to b6, I think.

2012-12-09, 22:23	#9
Raman Noodles "Mr. Tuch" Dec 2007 Chennai, India 4E9₁₆ Posts	What about 10...b6 11. e5 Bb7? [COLOR=White] What about 10...b6 11. e5 Bb7?[/COLOR] 10...b6 11. e5 Nxf3+ 12. Qxf3 Rb8 10...b6 11. e5 Ndf5 12. Bf2 Bb7 Last fiddled with by Raman on 2012-12-09 at 22:27

2012-12-10, 07:32	#10
LaurV Romulan Interpreter "name field" Jun 2011 Thailand 2833₁₆ Posts	[QUOTE=Raman;321107]10...b6 11. Nxd4 cxd4 12. e5 dxe3 13. Bxa8 d5 14. Ne4 Ba6 15. Nf6+ Bxf6 16. exf6 Nf5 17. c3 Qxa8 18. g4 Nh6 19. g5 Nf5 -/+ [/QUOTE] I have no chess board at the office, and no time for that, so the analysis still have to wait until I get home (4-5 hours, now lunch break) but man, grr.... are you sure you did all that long line "by hand"? I don;t want that later we lose because the adversary may prove that we used some chess engine...

2012-12-10, 08:15	#11
Raman Noodles "Mr. Tuch" Dec 2007 Chennai, India 2351₈ Posts	Please notice that the White's pawn pushing move "e5" may serve with two purposes 1. One is being to loosen the threat of the main-diagonal, with the White's bishop at g2 square, in order to threaten with the black's rook at a8 square, in order to attack with the black's pawn at b7 square. 2. Other is being to stop our own black's protection of the black knight at d4 square, by with the black's bishop at g7 square. We need to take with the opponent's knight at g3 square, or retreat with our own black knight back, if in case this move is being done, as soon as possible, if we do not do / respond / reply back with black's move dxe5 move, with black's move Bxe5 move, or otherwise else something like with it, that if in this case, it that thing and then stuff Last fiddled with by Raman on 2012-12-10 at 08:21

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