Move 10 - Page 3

Zeta-Flux · 2012-12-05, 21:49

[QUOTE=Brian-E;320571]Rather than intending to exchange on d4 (which was what richs played against his brother), my inclination in going for the plan Rb1, Ne2 and c3 would be to aim to drive Black's knight off d4 (either back to c6 or exchanging one of our knights). That way we are blunting the effect of Black's g7 bishop on the long diagonal and possibly aiming at playing d3-d4 later.[/QUOTE]

I like this plan too, except I also favor Qd2, to make them think about their king-side a little longer. I think Rb2 is a bit premature. Let's make them commit their queen to that side before we use an entire move to defend the pawn.

[P.S. I also played the Bf2 line with a friend and lost. :-(]

henryzz · 2012-12-06, 15:19

[QUOTE=Zeta-Flux;320626]I like this plan too, except I also favor Qd2, to make them think about their king-side a little longer. I think Rb2 is a bit premature. Let's make them commit their queen to that side before we use an entire move to defend the pawn.

[P.S. I also played the Bf2 line with a friend and lost. :-(][/QUOTE]

Since #11 I dislike Qd2. Not the fondest of Bf2. I prefer the sequence Rb1, Ne2 and c3

Brian-E · 2012-12-06, 18:10

I will support (vote for) either 10.Qd2 or 10.Rb1, whichever gets a majority decision from the other three team members.

richs · 2012-12-07, 02:06

Ok, I played my brother with David's sequence of Rb1, Ne2, and c3 (c3 delayed a bit) and had much better results (if you want to check it out):

1. e4 c5 2. Nc3 Nc6 3. g3 g6 4. Bg2 Bg7 5. f4 d6 6. d3 e6 7. Nf3 Nge7 8. Be3 Nd4 9. O-O O-O 10. Rb1 Bd7 11. Ne2 Nxf3+ 12. Bxf3 Qa5 13. a3 Bc6 14. c3 Rad8 15. b4 Qxa3 16. bxc5 d5 17. Ra1 Qb2 18. exd5 Nxd5 19. Bxd5 exd5 20. Rb1 Qa3 21. Qc2 Rfe8 22. Ra1 Ba4 23. Qd2 Qb3 24. Nd4 Bxd4 25. Bxd4 Ra8 26. f5 f6 27. fxg6 Re7 28. gxh7+ Rxh7 29. Bxf6 Kf7 30. Qf4 b6 31. Bd8+ Ke8 32. Qe5+ Kxd8 33. Rf8+ Be8 34. Qxe8+ Kc7 35. Rxa7+ Rxa7 36. Qc8#

I vote for Rb1.

Zeta-Flux · 2012-12-07, 19:33

If we do Rb1, they play Qa5, can they not simply exchange knights, then trade their bishop for our knight, and then they get a free pawn?

Brian-E · 2012-12-07, 22:04

[QUOTE=Zeta-Flux;320885]If we do Rb1, they play Qa5, can they not simply exchange knights, then trade their bishop for our knight, and then they get a free pawn?[/QUOTE]
If 10.Rb1 Qa5, I think 11.Bd2 is a good reply. Because of the threat of Nd5 the black queen will need to retreat again, perhaps to c7. Of course if 11...Nxf3+ 12.Bxf3 Bxc3? 13.Bxc3 Qxa2?? 14.Ra1 wins the queen.

richs · 2012-12-08, 01:23

I agree with Brian's analysis. Black will have to move Qc7 instead of taking a2. A lost move for Black, and we end up having a bishop vs their knight in the exchanges. A slight plus for us.

Brian-E · 2012-12-08, 09:47

Well, just to relativise that, clearly Black won't go for 12...Bxc3 in that line, and if 10...Qa5 11.Bd2 Qc7 (better than 11...Qb6 12.Kh1 when their queen seems misplaced) they have not lost a move because we have had to remove our bishop from the preferred post on e3. So as a prelude to developing their queen on c7, I don't think 10...Qa5 is a bad move. I just don't think we need to fear it especially.

By the way, we need to send our move in the coming 12 hours to comply with the 7-day rule, don't we?

Brian-E · 2012-12-08, 09:49

I'm still in favour of either 10.Qd2 or 10.Rb1, whichever allows us to reach a majority decision.

henryzz · 2012-12-08, 13:32

Rb1 from here.

richs · 2012-12-08, 15:25

Rb1 for me.

We have 6 hours left to post our move to stay within the one week limit.

2012-12-05, 21:49	#23
Zeta-Flux May 2003 60B₁₆ Posts	[QUOTE=Brian-E;320571]Rather than intending to exchange on d4 (which was what richs played against his brother), my inclination in going for the plan Rb1, Ne2 and c3 would be to aim to drive Black's knight off d4 (either back to c6 or exchanging one of our knights). That way we are blunting the effect of Black's g7 bishop on the long diagonal and possibly aiming at playing d3-d4 later.[/QUOTE] I like this plan too, except I also favor Qd2, to make them think about their king-side a little longer. I think Rb2 is a bit premature. Let's make them commit their queen to that side before we use an entire move to defend the pawn. [P.S. I also played the Bf2 line with a friend and lost. :-(] Last fiddled with by Zeta-Flux on 2012-12-05 at 21:50

2012-12-07, 22:04	#28
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 6316₈ Posts	[QUOTE=Zeta-Flux;320885]If we do Rb1, they play Qa5, can they not simply exchange knights, then trade their bishop for our knight, and then they get a free pawn?[/QUOTE] If 10.Rb1 Qa5, I think 11.Bd2 is a good reply. Because of the threat of Nd5 the black queen will need to retreat again, perhaps to c7. Of course if 11...Nxf3+ 12.Bxf3 Bxc3? 13.Bxc3 Qxa2?? 14.Ra1 wins the queen. Last fiddled with by Brian-E on 2012-12-07 at 22:08 Reason: deleted erroneous analysis

2012-12-08, 15:25	#33
richs "Rich" Aug 2002 Benicia, California 2·859 Posts	Rb1 for me. We have 6 hours left to post our move to stay within the one week limit. Last fiddled with by richs on 2012-12-08 at 15:27 Reason: Added time limit note.

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2012-12-06, 15:19	#24
henryzz Just call me Henry "David" Sep 2007 Liverpool (GMT/BST) 3·23·89 Posts	[QUOTE=Zeta-Flux;320626]I like this plan too, except I also favor Qd2, to make them think about their king-side a little longer. I think Rb2 is a bit premature. Let's make them commit their queen to that side before we use an entire move to defend the pawn. [P.S. I also played the Bf2 line with a friend and lost. :-(][/QUOTE] Since #11 I dislike Qd2. Not the fondest of Bf2. I prefer the sequence Rb1, Ne2 and c3

2012-12-06, 18:10	#25
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2·11·149 Posts	I will support (vote for) either 10.Qd2 or 10.Rb1, whichever gets a majority decision from the other three team members.

2012-12-07, 02:06	#26
richs "Rich" Aug 2002 Benicia, California 2×859 Posts	Ok, I played my brother with David's sequence of Rb1, Ne2, and c3 (c3 delayed a bit) and had much better results (if you want to check it out): 1. e4 c5 2. Nc3 Nc6 3. g3 g6 4. Bg2 Bg7 5. f4 d6 6. d3 e6 7. Nf3 Nge7 8. Be3 Nd4 9. O-O O-O 10. Rb1 Bd7 11. Ne2 Nxf3+ 12. Bxf3 Qa5 13. a3 Bc6 14. c3 Rad8 15. b4 Qxa3 16. bxc5 d5 17. Ra1 Qb2 18. exd5 Nxd5 19. Bxd5 exd5 20. Rb1 Qa3 21. Qc2 Rfe8 22. Ra1 Ba4 23. Qd2 Qb3 24. Nd4 Bxd4 25. Bxd4 Ra8 26. f5 f6 27. fxg6 Re7 28. gxh7+ Rxh7 29. Bxf6 Kf7 30. Qf4 b6 31. Bd8+ Ke8 32. Qe5+ Kxd8 33. Rf8+ Be8 34. Qxe8+ Kc7 35. Rxa7+ Rxa7 36. Qc8# I vote for Rb1.

2012-12-07, 19:33	#27
Zeta-Flux May 2003 7×13×17 Posts	If we do Rb1, they play Qa5, can they not simply exchange knights, then trade their bishop for our knight, and then they get a free pawn?

2012-12-08, 01:23	#29
richs "Rich" Aug 2002 Benicia, California 2×859 Posts	I agree with Brian's analysis. Black will have to move Qc7 instead of taking a2. A lost move for Black, and we end up having a bishop vs their knight in the exchanges. A slight plus for us.

2012-12-08, 09:47	#30
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 110011001110₂ Posts	Well, just to relativise that, clearly Black won't go for 12...Bxc3 in that line, and if 10...Qa5 11.Bd2 Qc7 (better than 11...Qb6 12.Kh1 when their queen seems misplaced) they have not lost a move because we have had to remove our bishop from the preferred post on e3. So as a prelude to developing their queen on c7, I don't think 10...Qa5 is a bad move. I just don't think we need to fear it especially. By the way, we need to send our move in the coming 12 hours to comply with the 7-day rule, don't we?

2012-12-08, 09:49	#31
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2×11×149 Posts	I'm still in favour of either 10.Qd2 or 10.Rb1, whichever allows us to reach a majority decision.

2012-12-08, 13:32	#32
henryzz Just call me Henry "David" Sep 2007 Liverpool (GMT/BST) 3·23·89 Posts	Rb1 from here.