Move 7

Brian-E · 2012-11-11, 10:10

Two possible candidate moves are:
[LIST][*]7.Nf3. Obvious. "Book". Non-committal because this is clearly the best place for the knight to develop.[*]7.Be3. Commits the bishop here when it might prefer to go to d2 (defending c3) instead depending on what our opponents do. Against that, it is mildly provocative because if our opponents judge this non-book move 7.Be3 to be worse than it in fact is, they might try and exploit it prematurely with the weak move 7...Qa5 hoping for 8.Bd2 Qc7 when they have been given a tempo (free move). But after 7...Qa5 we avoid losing time with the simple developing 8.Qd2 and the black queen is misplaced.[/LIST]Are there any other moves worth considering too?

richs · 2012-11-12, 02:02

I think they may respond Bd4 and we exchange bishops. I still prefer the "book" move Nf3 since I like to develop my kinghts early. But I am open to Be3 to stir up our competition.

Brian-E · 2012-11-12, 10:52

[QUOTE=richs;317960]I think they may respond Bd4 and we exchange bishops.[/QUOTE]
Oh, that would be nice! If we think they're going to waste a move (move the developed bishop again) to allow this same strong piece to be exchanged, then we should definitely encourage it.:smile:
But more realistically, I think your preference of 7.Nf3 is a good, sound piece of judgment.

henryzz · 2012-11-13, 10:46

I have just watched the [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kU9iOKsYitk"]video[/URL] I posted earlier again.
At 7:50 Nh3 is discussed although this is after d5 not d6. I would quite like this as it doesn't block the path of the queen.
9:45 is our current position. It suggests the possibility of g4 defending against Ne7 then f5 from black. Maybe we should just do that if Ne7 is done.
Nf3 is a highly recommended move. The video explains it much better than I would.
I reckon that Nf3 would be a good move now. I am not sure it is the only move for that knight though. If you look at the video 7:50 onward it gives some nice positions that couldn't be reached with Nf3.

Brian-E · 2012-11-13, 12:45

I think the central squares d4 and e5 are important to contest.
So I am in agreement with 7.Nf3 too.

henryzz · 2012-11-13, 13:30

[QUOTE=Brian-E;318147]I think the central squares d4 and e5 are important to contest.
So I am in agreement with 7.Nf3 too.[/QUOTE]
I see what you mean although e5 and d4 are sort of lost squares even then for us. If e5 had been done instead of e6 then it would have been even more so which is possibly why Nh3 was suggested only for when e5 was done instead of e6. This makes sense in fact as Nh3 leads to f5 which is attacked by the pawn on e6. Nh3 is out of the reackoning for me now.
The only thing I really think would be nice to defend against would be Nd4. Nf3 would sort of do that. Be3 would be another possiblity although we would have to watch out for a fork from d4. At least one varient in the video had the bishop moving back to f2 to avoid this.

After thinking further I recommend Nf3. Be3 doesn't look terribly weak to me but Nf3 would still be a good move even after that.

richs · 2012-11-14, 04:09

Sounds like three of us agree on Nf3. Just have to wait for Zeta-Flux to weigh in.

Brian-E · 2012-11-16, 10:44

While still hoping that Zeta-Flux will show up, I think we're now close to the stage where we'd have trouble discussing any new insight which he might give in time without falling foul of the one-week rule. Should we play the move now and just hope that Zeta-Flux would approve?

henryzz · 2012-11-16, 11:16

[QUOTE=Brian-E;318538]While still hoping that Zeta-Flux will show up, I think we're now close to the stage where we'd have trouble discussing any new insight which he might give in time without falling foul of the one-week rule. Should we play the move now and just hope that Zeta-Flux would approve?[/QUOTE]

An idea I had yesterday might be helpful if both teams agree.
As soon as a team is almost certain of their move like we are now. they can post it and let the other team start thinking. If something occurs that changes the move the team can change it until the 7 day limit or until they finalize the move. I suspect this could significantly improve the speed of move making in this game(possibly down to a 3 day average per move. I think we are more like 5 currently)

Right now let's wait until this evening as a courtesy to zeta.

Brian-E · 2012-11-16, 12:05

[QUOTE=henryzz;318540]An idea I had yesterday might be helpful if both teams agree.
As soon as a team is almost certain of their move like we are now. they can post it and let the other team start thinking. If something occurs that changes the move the team can change it until the 7 day limit or until they finalize the move. I suspect this could significantly improve the speed of move making in this game(possibly down to a 3 day average per move. I think we are more like 5 currently)[/QUOTE]
A very interesting, very radical idea.
But my initial reaction is negative for the following reason. When playing chess I would find it very difficult psychologically to concentrate hard on a position if I didn't know for sure that the opponent is not going to change their move. It's true that such psychological considerations may be less important in correspondence chess than in over-the-board chess, but they are there nonetheless, certainly in my case. I would not enjoy the game anything like so much if such a measure was in force.
I guess I'm a bit conservative when it comes to chess. Deviating from rules which have been built up over hundreds of years presses the wrong buttons with me. Sorry.:smile:

[QUOTE]Right now let's wait until this evening as a courtesy to zeta.[/QUOTE]Right. You're the team captain.:smile:

henryzz · 2012-11-17, 16:08

[QUOTE=Brian-E;318544]A very interesting, very radical idea.
But my initial reaction is negative for the following reason. When playing chess I would find it very difficult psychologically to concentrate hard on a position if I didn't know for sure that the opponent is not going to change their move. It's true that such psychological considerations may be less important in correspondence chess than in over-the-board chess, but they are there nonetheless, certainly in my case. I would not enjoy the game anything like so much if such a measure was in force.
I guess I'm a bit conservative when it comes to chess. Deviating from rules which have been built up over hundreds of years presses the wrong buttons with me. Sorry.:smile:
[/quote]
I was only intending this as an extra. If one team/player wants to ignore the early posting then they can. It provides a longer period for people like richs and zeta-flux who aren't on all the time to post their views.
[quote]Right. You're the team captain.:smile:[/QUOTE]
Am I being over the top in trying to let everyone be able to have their say? If 3/4 of us reach a consensus on a relatively obvious move like we did above by the 14th, should we just post? Should we wait 24 hours then post?

I am trying to speed up the game to avoid more people leaving because the game is too slow. Also if the game is quicker a lot of people would enjoy it more.

2012-11-11, 10:10	#1
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2×11×149 Posts	Move 7 Two possible candidate moves are: [LIST][]7.Nf3. Obvious. "Book". Non-committal because this is clearly the best place for the knight to develop.[]7.Be3. Commits the bishop here when it might prefer to go to d2 (defending c3) instead depending on what our opponents do. Against that, it is mildly provocative because if our opponents judge this non-book move 7.Be3 to be worse than it in fact is, they might try and exploit it prematurely with the weak move 7...Qa5 hoping for 8.Bd2 Qc7 when they have been given a tempo (free move). But after 7...Qa5 we avoid losing time with the simple developing 8.Qd2 and the black queen is misplaced.[/LIST]Are there any other moves worth considering too?

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2012-11-12, 02:02	#2
richs "Rich" Aug 2002 Benicia, California 2·859 Posts	I think they may respond Bd4 and we exchange bishops. I still prefer the "book" move Nf3 since I like to develop my kinghts early. But I am open to Be3 to stir up our competition.

2012-11-12, 10:52	#3
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 6316₈ Posts	[QUOTE=richs;317960]I think they may respond Bd4 and we exchange bishops.[/QUOTE] Oh, that would be nice! If we think they're going to waste a move (move the developed bishop again) to allow this same strong piece to be exchanged, then we should definitely encourage it.:smile: But more realistically, I think your preference of 7.Nf3 is a good, sound piece of judgment.

2012-11-13, 10:46	#4
henryzz Just call me Henry "David" Sep 2007 Liverpool (GMT/BST) 17FD₁₆ Posts	I have just watched the [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kU9iOKsYitk"]video[/URL] I posted earlier again. At 7:50 Nh3 is discussed although this is after d5 not d6. I would quite like this as it doesn't block the path of the queen. 9:45 is our current position. It suggests the possibility of g4 defending against Ne7 then f5 from black. Maybe we should just do that if Ne7 is done. Nf3 is a highly recommended move. The video explains it much better than I would. I reckon that Nf3 would be a good move now. I am not sure it is the only move for that knight though. If you look at the video 7:50 onward it gives some nice positions that couldn't be reached with Nf3.

2012-11-13, 12:45	#5
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2·11·149 Posts	I think the central squares d4 and e5 are important to contest. So I am in agreement with 7.Nf3 too.

2012-11-13, 13:30	#6
henryzz Just call me Henry "David" Sep 2007 Liverpool (GMT/BST) 17FD₁₆ Posts	[QUOTE=Brian-E;318147]I think the central squares d4 and e5 are important to contest. So I am in agreement with 7.Nf3 too.[/QUOTE] I see what you mean although e5 and d4 are sort of lost squares even then for us. If e5 had been done instead of e6 then it would have been even more so which is possibly why Nh3 was suggested only for when e5 was done instead of e6. This makes sense in fact as Nh3 leads to f5 which is attacked by the pawn on e6. Nh3 is out of the reackoning for me now. The only thing I really think would be nice to defend against would be Nd4. Nf3 would sort of do that. Be3 would be another possiblity although we would have to watch out for a fork from d4. At least one varient in the video had the bishop moving back to f2 to avoid this. After thinking further I recommend Nf3. Be3 doesn't look terribly weak to me but Nf3 would still be a good move even after that.

2012-11-14, 04:09	#7
richs "Rich" Aug 2002 Benicia, California 2×859 Posts	Sounds like three of us agree on Nf3. Just have to wait for Zeta-Flux to weigh in.

2012-11-16, 10:44	#8
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2×11×149 Posts	While still hoping that Zeta-Flux will show up, I think we're now close to the stage where we'd have trouble discussing any new insight which he might give in time without falling foul of the one-week rule. Should we play the move now and just hope that Zeta-Flux would approve?

2012-11-16, 11:16	#9
henryzz Just call me Henry "David" Sep 2007 Liverpool (GMT/BST) 3×23×89 Posts	[QUOTE=Brian-E;318538]While still hoping that Zeta-Flux will show up, I think we're now close to the stage where we'd have trouble discussing any new insight which he might give in time without falling foul of the one-week rule. Should we play the move now and just hope that Zeta-Flux would approve?[/QUOTE] An idea I had yesterday might be helpful if both teams agree. As soon as a team is almost certain of their move like we are now. they can post it and let the other team start thinking. If something occurs that changes the move the team can change it until the 7 day limit or until they finalize the move. I suspect this could significantly improve the speed of move making in this game(possibly down to a 3 day average per move. I think we are more like 5 currently) Right now let's wait until this evening as a courtesy to zeta.

2012-11-16, 12:05	#10
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 2×11×149 Posts	[QUOTE=henryzz;318540]An idea I had yesterday might be helpful if both teams agree. As soon as a team is almost certain of their move like we are now. they can post it and let the other team start thinking. If something occurs that changes the move the team can change it until the 7 day limit or until they finalize the move. I suspect this could significantly improve the speed of move making in this game(possibly down to a 3 day average per move. I think we are more like 5 currently)[/QUOTE] A very interesting, very radical idea. But my initial reaction is negative for the following reason. When playing chess I would find it very difficult psychologically to concentrate hard on a position if I didn't know for sure that the opponent is not going to change their move. It's true that such psychological considerations may be less important in correspondence chess than in over-the-board chess, but they are there nonetheless, certainly in my case. I would not enjoy the game anything like so much if such a measure was in force. I guess I'm a bit conservative when it comes to chess. Deviating from rules which have been built up over hundreds of years presses the wrong buttons with me. Sorry.:smile: [QUOTE]Right now let's wait until this evening as a courtesy to zeta.[/QUOTE]Right. You're the team captain.:smile:

2012-11-17, 16:08	#11
henryzz Just call me Henry "David" Sep 2007 Liverpool (GMT/BST) 3×23×89 Posts	[QUOTE=Brian-E;318544]A very interesting, very radical idea. But my initial reaction is negative for the following reason. When playing chess I would find it very difficult psychologically to concentrate hard on a position if I didn't know for sure that the opponent is not going to change their move. It's true that such psychological considerations may be less important in correspondence chess than in over-the-board chess, but they are there nonetheless, certainly in my case. I would not enjoy the game anything like so much if such a measure was in force. I guess I'm a bit conservative when it comes to chess. Deviating from rules which have been built up over hundreds of years presses the wrong buttons with me. Sorry.:smile: [/quote] I was only intending this as an extra. If one team/player wants to ignore the early posting then they can. It provides a longer period for people like richs and zeta-flux who aren't on all the time to post their views. [quote]Right. You're the team captain.:smile:[/QUOTE] Am I being over the top in trying to let everyone be able to have their say? If 3/4 of us reach a consensus on a relatively obvious move like we did above by the 14th, should we just post? Should we wait 24 hours then post? I am trying to speed up the game to avoid more people leaving because the game is too slow. Also if the game is quicker a lot of people would enjoy it more.