A theism, a theism, my kingdom for a theism

[kladner]

I had been pondering the question of his existence for quite some time,

If you are going to call disrespect for a lower case "g", shouldn't you also be using an upper case "H"?

Actually, I feel that you are entitled to your beliefs. You are not entitled to expect everyone else, regardless of beliefs, to observe your protocols with regard to your beliefs.

As to Karma, I find it well expressed, for me, as "What goes around, comes around." Others might say, "As you sow, so shall you reap."

[Zeta-Flux]

Originally Posted by kladner

If you are going to call disrespect for a lower case "g", shouldn't you also be using an upper case "H"?

No. The word "his" is a pronoun, not a proper name.

Actually, I feel that you are entitled to your beliefs. You are not entitled to expect everyone else, regardless of beliefs, to observe your protocols with regard to your beliefs.

If (1) I had been discussing protocols of my beliefs (rather than societal norms about proper names) and (2) I had expected everyone else to follow those protocols (rather than merely providing instructions about how to avoid behavior that could be viewed as disrespectful during a conversation), then I would be in full agreement with you.

In other words, it would be better to view my comments similar to a kindly reminder to avoid typing all in caps (because of its social meaning as "yelling"), rather than viewing it as an ultimatum that IF YOU TYPE ALL IN CAPS I'M GOING TO HUNT YOU DOWN BECAUSE YOU HAVE OFFENDED ME, AND YOU ARE EVIL AND HITLER.

[chalsall]

Originally Posted by Zeta-Flux

I'll share two of my experiences.

I appreciate your honesty.

To share, I was a strong atheist until I programmed one of my computers (a C64) to render the Mandelbrot set. Then, shortly later, I became an agnostic.

We /can't/ know. But we can question....

[chappy]

God is not a proper name either.

YHWH is the closest you'll get to a proper name, and even it might mean all kinds of different things. Possibly pronounced Yah Vay, but only slightly less likely is Yah Way--which rolls off the tongue better. And under no circumstances is the latinized Jehovah which comes from having no "Y" sound so replacing it with the J, and understanding a bit about ancient Hebrew, adding in the vowels (possibly from Adonai--there's debate here) the name of this particular son of El either. (but Jesus is Yeshua all Greeked out anyway so whatevs.)

It is capitalized because it represents a proper name when no proper name is actually known. This has the unfortunate effect of implying that Christians were always monotheistic.

However you can also think of it as capitalizing a title differentiating between a specific instance from general usage that otherwise would get capitalized like: Today the President came to lunch. Which means that President Obama came to lunch. Whereas "we invite the president to come to lunch" would be taken to mean whomever is the president gets invited to lunch.

[kladner]

In other words, it would be better to view my comments similar to a kindly reminder to avoid typing all in caps (because of its social meaning as "yelling"),

You are engaging in diversion. You are talking about how adherents to theistic beliefs expect their beliefs to be deferred to. Again, you are entitled to your beliefs. You are not entitled to expect others to give deference to them.

Also, it is easy to come up with examples of pronouns referring to supposed divinities also be capitalized. (In His Name.) I won't bother with more, because I won't change your mind.

Do not expect that I, and many others, will follow the demands of your beliefs regarding your "god". Your Freedom of Religion is also my Freedom from Religion.

Note also, that some observant Jewish persons will not even write the word "g!d". In their sense of things, you are violating their concerns by even using a word which is not even a name.

[Zeta-Flux]

Originally Posted by chalsall

I appreciate your honesty.

To share, I was a strong atheist until I programmed one of my computers (a C64) to render the Mandelbrot set. Then, shortly later, I became an agnostic.

We /can't/ know. But we can question....

Thanks chalsall.

[Zeta-Flux]

Originally Posted by chappy

God is not a proper name either.

YHWH is the closest you'll get to a proper name, and even it might mean all kinds of different things. Possibly pronounced Yah Vay, but only slightly less likely is Yah Way--which rolls off the tongue better. And under no circumstances is the latinized Jehovah which comes from having no "Y" sound so replacing it with the J, and understanding a bit about ancient Hebrew, adding in the vowels (possibly from Adonai--there's debate here) the name of this particular son of El either. (but Jesus is Yeshua all Greeked out anyway so whatevs.)

It is capitalized because it represents a proper name when no proper name is actually known. This has the unfortunate effect of implying that Christians were always monotheistic.

However you can also think of it as capitalizing a title differentiating between a specific instance from general usage that otherwise would get capitalized like: Today the President came to lunch. Which means that President Obama came to lunch. Whereas "we invite the president to come to lunch" would be taken to mean whomever is the president gets invited to lunch.

chappy, I agree with you that the word "god" can act as a title. I also have a similar understanding of the tetragrammaton.

That said, are you sure that, as used by a vast majority of people in English speaking languages, the word "god" is never used as a name? (I would argue it is used as a name quite often.) In any case, I appreciate your clarification on capitalizing titles when referring to specific instances vs. general usage.

[Zeta-Flux]

kladner,

There are many things you said that I agree with, and a few things I don't. I'll just point out that I made no "demands", and leave it at that.

[wblipp]

Originally Posted by kladner

Do not expect that I, and many others, will follow the demands of your beliefs regarding your "god".

Personally, I didn't read the original post as a demand, although I can see how others could have read it that way. I thought his reply was very clear that he was not demanding anything. If you don't like his approach to capitalization, ignore it.

[kladner]

When discussing the the god of Christianity, his proper name is God. Thus, to use lower-case (whether you believe in him or not) when using the word as a name is disrespectful (and unnecessarily so).

Eh?

EDIT: I will elaborate. I am impatient with the presumption of respect owed to the censored beliefs of others. I am especially impatient when those expectations come from adherents of sects, such as LDS and Roman Catholicism, which have expended huge resources emphasizing their utter disrespect for me, mine, and all the other people who do not conform to their [STRIKE]censored[/STRIKE] narrow-minded views concerning sexuality, attraction, and loving, committed relationships.

I particularly had in mind the millions of tax-exempt dollars which the LDS put into the Proposition 8 referendum in California. Such political activities should call into strong question their tax-exempt status, but such are the preferences and subsidies that we all have to pay to religions.

I do not hold you, Zeta Flux, personally responsible for the actions of the LDS Powers That Be, but I will not accept rebukes of any sort regarding respect for religion, given this history.

[Xyzzy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kate_Kelly_(feminist)

The recent events concerning this woman and the LDS church have been interesting.