A theism, a theism, my kingdom for a theism - Page 64

Brian-E · 2014-01-08, 17:22

So agnosticism doesn't make sense simply because no-one would think of rioting (or throwing over tables and whipping people) in its name?

What subtleties am I missing here in the above arguments?

xilman · 2014-01-08, 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian-E

So agnosticism doesn't make sense simply because no-one would think of rioting (or throwing over tables and whipping people) in its name?

What subtleties am I missing here in the above arguments?

Beats me too.

Perhaps I also need to get my irony detector recalibrated.

chappy · 2014-01-08, 22:21

No, no. Agnosticism doesn't make sense because they (agnostics) like to riot more than Association Football fans.

TheMawn · 2014-01-08, 23:33

I used to consider myself agnostic. As I've given the issue more thought, I find myself roughly 80% atheist and 20% anti-theist, and the idea of agnosticism actually slightly disgusts me. It feel very... uncommitted.

I understand and do actually respect the notion of "We don't know if there's a God or not" but it feels too middle-of-the-road for something that's supposed to be a well established opinion.

chalsall · 2014-01-08, 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMawn

I understand and do actually respect the notion of "We don't know if there's a God or not" but it feels too middle-of-the-road for something that's supposed to be a well established opinion.

IMO, the agnostic position is the only honest logical conclusion.

There can be many "zeros" after the decimal point on being atheist, but never only zeros.

TheMawn · 2014-01-09, 03:56

I suppose it depends on Agnosticism vs Atheism and the interpretations thereof. In The Life of Pi, the author was going on about how an Atheist on his deathbed would feel the light of God warming him and would believe in his final moments, whereas an Agnostic would blame lack of oxygen for causing hallucinations.

Backward.

I always saw Agnostics as accepting (tolerant and accepting not being the same thing) of religion and its concepts but failing to have been convinced by them. I understand Agnosticism as being unsure of whether there is a Deity or not.

I call myself an Atheist, because I thoroughly believe in no-God. Just a hint less than most Christians believe in God. Any reasonable one will express their doubts, slim as they may be, but that doesn't make them Agnostic.

I think Agnosticism is the viewpoint of the middle-of-the-road guy who hasn't actually given it some thought, and the effort required to come up with it is so slim yet it is accepted as a perfectly fleshed out opinion just makes it a very tempting option to a person who doesn't feel like spending time on the matter.

chalsall · 2014-01-09, 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMawn

I think Agnosticism is the viewpoint of the middle-of-the-road guy who hasn't actually given it some thought, and the effort required to come up with it is so slim yet it is accepted as a perfectly fleshed out opinion just makes it a very tempting option to a person who doesn't feel like spending time on the matter.

In my personal case, I became an Agnostic from being an Atheist after a great deal of thought.

It was after I had finally wrapped my head around the implications of quantum mechanics, and understood that there are many, many things which cannot be known with certainty -- neither provable, nor disprovable.

Only years later did I realize, after much reading, that my personal belief system resonated strongly with the Buddhist philosophy. I don't consider myself Buddhist because I don't believe in reincarnation, but the idea that (to summarize) "The Universe reflects goodness" makes a certain amount of sense to me.

xilman · 2014-01-09, 19:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by chalsall

... but the idea that (to summarize) "The Universe reflects goodness" makes a certain amount of sense to me.

Which appears to me related to, but not identical to, the concept of God as espoused by Spinoza and Einstein.

chappy · 2014-02-04, 23:20

http://debatelive.org/

Not exactly the place for this but, what evs...

Bill Nye the Science Guy VS. Ken Ham the Creation Museum Guy.

If you don't drink already the Gish Gallop will drive you to it.

Xyzzy · 2014-03-04, 18:27

http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...e-of-universe/

chalsall · 2014-03-04, 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xyzzy

http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...e-of-universe/

I, personally, feel "awe" when looking at mountains.

I feel awe when I look at the horizon over the sea, and watch the sun rise, or the sun set.

I feel awe when I look at stars.

Or even planets, or plants, or animals....

2014-01-08, 17:22	#694
Brian-E "Brian" Jul 2007 The Netherlands 7×467 Posts	So agnosticism doesn't make sense simply because no-one would think of rioting (or throwing over tables and whipping people) in its name? What subtleties am I missing here in the above arguments?

2014-01-08, 22:21	#696
chappy "Jeff" Feb 2012 St. Louis, Missouri, USA 13×89 Posts	No, no. Agnosticism doesn't make sense because they (agnostics) like to riot more than Association Football fans.

2014-01-08, 23:33	#697
TheMawn May 2013 East. Always East. 11·157 Posts	I used to consider myself agnostic. As I've given the issue more thought, I find myself roughly 80% atheist and 20% anti-theist, and the idea of agnosticism actually slightly disgusts me. It feel very... uncommitted. I understand and do actually respect the notion of "We don't know if there's a God or not" but it feels too middle-of-the-road for something that's supposed to be a well established opinion.

2014-01-09, 03:56	#699
TheMawn May 2013 East. Always East. 11×157 Posts	I suppose it depends on Agnosticism vs Atheism and the interpretations thereof. In The Life of Pi, the author was going on about how an Atheist on his deathbed would feel the light of God warming him and would believe in his final moments, whereas an Agnostic would blame lack of oxygen for causing hallucinations. Backward. I always saw Agnostics as accepting (tolerant and accepting not being the same thing) of religion and its concepts but failing to have been convinced by them. I understand Agnosticism as being unsure of whether there is a Deity or not. I call myself an Atheist, because I thoroughly believe in no-God. Just a hint less than most Christians believe in God. Any reasonable one will express their doubts, slim as they may be, but that doesn't make them Agnostic. I think Agnosticism is the viewpoint of the middle-of-the-road guy who hasn't actually given it some thought, and the effort required to come up with it is so slim yet it is accepted as a perfectly fleshed out opinion just makes it a very tempting option to a person who doesn't feel like spending time on the matter.

2014-02-04, 23:20	#702
chappy "Jeff" Feb 2012 St. Louis, Missouri, USA 13×89 Posts	http://debatelive.org/ Not exactly the place for this but, what evs... Bill Nye the Science Guy VS. Ken Ham the Creation Museum Guy. If you don't drink already the Gish Gallop will drive you to it.

2014-03-04, 18:27	#703
Xyzzy "Mike" Aug 2002 20065₈ Posts	http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...e-of-universe/