Police state(ment)

[xilman]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19380492

All nine people injured in Friday's Empire State Building shooting were hurt as a result of police fire, New York's police chief has confirmed."

With cops like these, who needs criminals?

[ewmayer]

Reminds me of the typical gun-nut response to the recent Colorado theater shooting: "If some of those theatergoers had been allowed to carry a loaded firearm into the movie as is their right under the 2nd amendment, the shooter would've thought twice about doing what he did."

That's right, dozens of Daniel-Boone-wannabe pistol-packing citizen-yahoos blasting away inside a darkened theater is allegedly a recipe for deterrence. If I were the shooter, I'd be thankful for all the free help in escalating the chaos.

[Xyzzy]

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/...193729306.html

[Zeta-Flux]

Originally Posted by ewmayer

Reminds me of the typical gun-nut response to the recent Colorado theater shooting: "If some of those theatergoers had been allowed to carry a loaded firearm into the movie as is their right under the 2nd amendment, the shooter would've thought twice about doing what he did."

That's right, dozens of Daniel-Boone-wannabe pistol-packing citizen-yahoos blasting away inside a darkened theater is allegedly a recipe for deterrence. If I were the shooter, I'd be thankful for all the free help in escalating the chaos.

You honestly think there would be more damage than was done in that case? I sincerely doubt that if you were the shooter you'd be thankful for citizens with firearms in the theater.

[Brian-E]

Originally Posted by Zeta-Flux

You honestly think there would be more damage than was done in that case? I sincerely doubt that if you were the shooter you'd be thankful for citizens with firearms in the theater.

It seems unlikely to me that anyone can reliably say whether the shooter in Colorado would have been deterred or encouraged if he suspected that people in the cinema were armed, or whether it would have had no effect on his actions. Rules which might normally apply to the majority of the population cannot be reliably applied to him at that time.

But I suggest that on a general day in a general city, the presence of firearms amongst cinema-goers makes the film-showing much more unsafe for everyone. I dread to think of what might happen if some child bursts a bag of crisps or something in the dark and someone else has a flashback to "Colorado" and draws their gun and fires in a panic reaction...

[garo]

Originally Posted by Zeta-Flux

You honestly think there would be more damage than was done in that case? I sincerely doubt that if you were the shooter you'd be thankful for citizens with firearms in the theater.

Right! Two presumably well-trained policemen in broad daylight manage to injure nine bystanders while taking out one felon. A dozen armed citizens - not necessarily trained to handle life and death situation - in a dark theatre will do better?

[Prime95]

Originally Posted by garo

A dozen armed citizens - not necessarily trained to handle life and death situation - in a dark theatre will do better?

There is a fair chance they would do better than zero armed citizens in a dark theater against a madman.

[davieddy]

Originally Posted by Prime95

There is a fair chance they would do better than zero armed citizens in a dark theater against a madman.

Yep. They would injure/kill a lot more.

[c10ck3r]

Two ex-soldiers with handguns would have sufficed. Or one. Or one redneck with a gun. Us country boys are raised on guns, we tend to be pretty accurate.

[ewmayer]

Originally Posted by Prime95

There is a fair chance they would do better than zero armed citizens in a dark theater against a madman.

If your metric of "quality" here is bystander body count, I agree.

[CRGreathouse]

Originally Posted by Brian-E

It seems unlikely to me that anyone can reliably say whether the shooter in Colorado would have been deterred or encouraged if he suspected that people in the cinema were armed, or whether it would have had no effect on his actions. Rules which might normally apply to the majority of the population cannot be reliably applied to him at that time.

But I suggest that on a general day in a general city, the presence of firearms amongst cinema-goers makes the film-showing much more unsafe for everyone. I dread to think of what might happen if some child bursts a bag of crisps or something in the dark and someone else has a flashback to "Colorado" and draws their gun and fires in a panic reaction...

It seems beyond serious refutation that shooter scenarios would be improved, on average, with weapon-carrying citizens in the theater, just as it seems beyond serious refutation that normal non-shooter scenarios would be worsened, on average, with the same. Finding the sign of the overall difference is nonobvious, but with the percentage of shooter scenarios being so small that seems easy to guess...