Prime95 License/Untrusted Versions? - Page 2

Dubslow · 2012-05-04, 00:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by chalsall

Yes.
It wasn't.

Fun in a farce-for-his-attention/comedy-sketch sort of way.

What happened?

chalsall · 2012-05-04, 00:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubslow

What happened?

Best I not speak too specifically about it.

It had to do with a shortcoming of the GPL (which he didn't want to hear about), but which has since been fixed.

cheesehead · 2012-05-04, 04:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by chalsall

Have you ever tried to have a conversation with Richard Stallman?

While a brilliant man, he's got the attention span of a crane fly.

I once had a discussion with an OCD guy while an ADD guy looked on. After I figured out that I just had to be very patient with the OCD guy, we got along fine. Later, the ADD guy said that he couldn't tell the difference between the OCD guy's speech and mine. (The ADD guy was interleaving sentences to me with sentences to another person about another subject.)

ixfd64 · 2012-05-04, 05:10

I think Prime95 falls under freeware. If it was truly free software, then a Mersenne prime discoverer would be able to claim the EFF prize directly and not have to split it with GIMPS.

Dubslow · 2012-05-04, 05:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by ixfd64

I think Prime95 falls under freeware. If it was truly free software, then a Mersenne prime discoverer would be able to claim the EFF prize directly and not have to split it with GIMPS.

Why? The whole point of this thread is that I'm not sure that's true.

Batalov · 2012-05-04, 05:43

Why? Because freeware $\ne$ free software.
Read very carefully the first line under the running title of Wiki article.

Xyzzy · 2012-05-04, 06:17

Code:

$ wget -O - -q 'http://packages.debian.org/stable/allpackages?format=txt.gz' | gzip -d | egrep -i 'gimps|mprime|mlucas|glucas'
$

Nope. Not free.

Dubslow · 2012-05-04, 06:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Batalov

Why? Because freeware $\ne$ free software.
Read very carefully the first line under the running title of Wiki article.

I am well aware of this fact. (Which Wiki article did you mean?) Did you not read the first post? I am not convinced that the EFF restriction disqualifies Prime95 as libre software, hence all the quotes from both the FSF and Wikipedia about the definition of free software, versus the license of Prime95.

@Xyzzy: That page is neither an exhaustive list of free software nor exclusively a list of free software. Try searching for "[non-free]", e.g. next to most of the nvidia packages.

LaurV · 2012-05-04, 06:35

I understand exactly the concept of "gratis vs libre", in all Latin languages there are separate words for them. In Romanian we even have different "shadows" (remember my posts about "gratuitous" factors thread?) for the same English word "free".

But still don't agree with including source code in this dispute. You can have open sources for both of them, and closed sources for both of them.

I distributed for free* many of my programs, "sandbox" things and bigger projects, but I am always reticent to release the source code when I am not forced to (like for example I made lots of MQL4 tools to help in trading and there everything was "de-compilable" with a click), or when the release didn't have a pedagogic goal in itself (doing programs for and together with my students, friends, colleagues, etc, to teach them or to learn from them). My fishing skill is my fishing skill, I invested money and time to learn it, and I am reticent to give it to you for free. On the other hand, there is no free lunch in the real world. They all have some reason behind the pure altruism (as publicity, fame, advertizing, money, whatever). I did that too, but I won't call it "free software". "Freeware" is a much better description.

Notes:
*when it was not beerware. I usually use beerware license, trick which I learned from a German guy who developed a big part of the winAVR stuff. If you can not find what is beerware licence, it sounds approximately like this:

Code:

/*
* ------------------------------------------------------------
* This software written by............ and is distributed 
* under the BEER-WARE license. This means you can do whatever
* you liver wants with this stuff, as long as you retain this
* note. If you found the software useful for anything, if you
* think that this stuff is worth it,  and if we meet sometime
* in the future in real life, then you can buy me a beer.
* ------------------------------------------------------------
*/

Xyzzy · 2012-05-04, 18:16

Quote:

@Xyzzy: That page is neither an exhaustive list of free software nor exclusively a list of free software. Try searching for "[non-free]", e.g. next to most of the nvidia packages.

Well, it is for us, because if it is not a package approved by the Debian community then we do not have it.

Note what happens if we look for a program we want and it is not free:

Code:

$ wget -O - -q 'http://packages.debian.org/stable/allpackages?format=txt.gz' | gzip -d | egrep -i 'firmware-realtek'
firmware-realtek (0.28+squeeze1) [non-free] Binary firmware for Realtek wired and wireless network adapters
$

Oops! That package is not cool! Good thing we looked!

We wonder what other tools could help us? How about:

Code:

$ vrms
No non-free or contrib packages installed on m!  rms would be proud.
$

Life is simple here.

chalsall · 2012-05-04, 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubslow

I am not convinced that the EFF restriction disqualifies Prime95 as libre software.

It has nothing to do with the Electronic Frontier Foundation. They are simply the ones offering the prize money.

The reason Prime95 does not qualify as "Libre Software" is because some of the source code is not publically known and modifiable.

Additionally, George (perfectly reasonably) has placed a restriction (an "encumbrance") on its use, such that if it is used to find an MP, George has to be involved with the announcement.

Absolutely nothing wrong with this. But it does mean the software is technically (and legally) not "Free as in Speech" (libre), rather than simply being "Free as in Beer" (gratis).

2012-05-04, 06:17	#18
Xyzzy "Mike" Aug 2002 5×17×97 Posts	Code: $ wget -O - -q 'http://packages.debian.org/stable/allpackages?format=txt.gz' \| gzip -d \| egrep -i 'gimps\|mprime\|mlucas\|glucas' $ Nope. Not free.

2012-05-04, 06:35	#20
LaurV Romulan Interpreter Jun 2011 Thailand 2⁶×151 Posts	I understand exactly the concept of "gratis vs libre", in all Latin languages there are separate words for them. In Romanian we even have different "shadows" (remember my posts about "gratuitous" factors thread?) for the same English word "free". But still don't agree with including source code in this dispute. You can have open sources for both of them, and closed sources for both of them. I distributed for free* many of my programs, "sandbox" things and bigger projects, but I am always reticent to release the source code when I am not forced to (like for example I made lots of MQL4 tools to help in trading and there everything was "de-compilable" with a click), or when the release didn't have a pedagogic goal in itself (doing programs for and together with my students, friends, colleagues, etc, to teach them or to learn from them). My fishing skill is my fishing skill, I invested money and time to learn it, and I am reticent to give it to you for free. On the other hand, there is no free lunch in the real world. They all have some reason behind the pure altruism (as publicity, fame, advertizing, money, whatever). I did that too, but I won't call it "free software". "Freeware" is a much better description. Notes: when it was not beerware. I usually use beerware license, trick which I learned from a German guy who developed a big part of the winAVR stuff. If you can not find what is beerware licence, it sounds approximately like this: Code: / * ------------------------------------------------------------ * This software written by............ and is distributed * under the BEER-WARE license. This means you can do whatever * you liver wants with this stuff, as long as you retain this * note. If you found the software useful for anything, if you * think that this stuff is worth it, and if we meet sometime * in the future in real life, then you can buy me a beer. * ------------------------------------------------------------ / Last fiddled with by LaurV on 2012-05-04 at 06:39*

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2012-05-04, 05:10	#15
ixfd64 Bemusing Prompter "Danny" Dec 2002 California 7⁴ Posts	I think Prime95 falls under freeware. If it was truly free software, then a Mersenne prime discoverer would be able to claim the EFF prize directly and not have to split it with GIMPS.

2012-05-04, 05:43	#17
Batalov "Serge" Mar 2008 Phi(4,2^7658614+1)/2 9497₁₀ Posts	Why? Because freeware $\ne$ free software. Read very carefully the first line under the running title of Wiki article.