Economic prospects for solar photovoltaic power

[chalsall]

Originally Posted by CRGreathouse

For the moment my stance is still that all of the sustainable power sources -- wind, solar, nuclear, hydro -- are so far beyond the traditional fossil sources that squabbling between the former isn't productive.

I completely agree. Nuclear has its issues, but it is impossible to create energy without spending resources, and dealing with the by-products; even with so-called "clean" or "green" energy production.

But I've also read my Machiavelli and Sun et al.

I suspect all of them would have shuddered in the opportunities the Internet and Social Media make available now-a-days to "divide and conquer".

And confuse....

[CRGreathouse]

Originally Posted by chalsall

I completely agree. Nuclear has its issues, but it is impossible to create energy without spending resources, and dealing with the by-products; even with so-called "clean" or "green" energy production.

Indeed. And I look forward to technological advances -- right now I support nuclear power, but perhaps I'll be opposed once there is something better or current technologies advance.

Originally Posted by chalsall

But I've also read my Machiavelli and Sun et al.

I suspect all of them would have shuddered in the opportunities the Internet and Social Media make available now-a-days to "divide and conquer".

And confuse....

I think Sun would have trouble with the Clausewitz paradigm in which war is construed broadly enough to include Facebook. I certainly agree that they would be amazed at the opportunities presented by this brave new world.

[chalsall]

Originally Posted by only_human

I think it is fair to say that solar power does have some disruptions that we haven't fully assimilated socialogically.

I completely agree.

Originally Posted by only_human

My sweetheart's cousin, a fireman, said that they have to cut through solar roofing power lines because of safety risks of a powered roof.

I do hope that they don't do that by hand. A "hot" to "ground" short through a human could be a really bad day.

Here in Barbados all PV installations have large red shut-off boxes. All are registered. The issue isn't so much to the firemen, but Barbados Light and Power (BL&P) personnel doing line maintenance. But it could be assumed that BL&P personal have volt meters upon their person.

Originally Posted by only_human

There may be several disputable aspects but it is fair to say that building codes and safety bypasses and the like haven't standardized into optimal configurations and even low voltages can be dangerous in some situations involving conductivity and there is not enough assertion that there isn't a live power inverter somewhere.

I don't disagree. This is a work in progress.

But rejecting progress by the incumbents because of the inability to adapt doesn't make sense in the long term.

[CRGreathouse]

Originally Posted by chalsall

I don't disagree. This is a work in progress.

But rejecting progress by the incumbents because of the inability to adapt doesn't make sense in the long term.

\(\,\)

[kladner]

It does seem, that with China's grip on rare earth element production, recycling should be a growth industry. Unfortunately, a good bit of tech recycling gets shipped out to low-wage countries, where job-killing regulations regarding child labor, worker safety, and toxic chemicals don't exist.

[CRGreathouse]

Originally Posted by kladner

It does seem, that with China's grip on rare earth element production, recycling should be a growth industry. Unfortunately, a good bit of tech recycling gets shipped out to low-wage countries, where job-killing regulations regarding child labor, worker safety, and toxic chemicals don't exist.

Yes. The real pity to me (as a realist) is that it wouldn't take that much to vastly improve their worker safety -- I've seen images of ship-breaking fields in such countries with workers crossing the beaches without so much as boots (or shoes). Recognizing that full PPE as we would require in the US is probably impractical, just having the basics -- hard hats, steel-toed boots, and respirators if something's burning -- would make a tremendous difference, and it wouldn't cost that much.

[fivemack]

Originally Posted by CRGreathouse

Yes. The real pity to me (as a realist) is that it wouldn't take that much to vastly improve their worker safety -- I've seen images of ship-breaking fields in such countries with workers crossing the beaches without so much as boots (or shoes). Recognizing that full PPE as we would require in the US is probably impractical, just having the basics -- hard hats, steel-toed boots, and respirators if something's burning -- would make a tremendous difference, and it wouldn't cost that much.

Having the basics will not cause people to use them if they are on piece-work rates and they can work quicker barefoot.

I'd certainly want higher pay if I was working under the midday Bangladesh sun and required to wear a hard hat and heavy steel-toed boots!

[CRGreathouse]

Originally Posted by fivemack

Having the basics will not cause people to use them if they are on piece-work rates and they can work quicker barefoot.

I'd certainly want higher pay if I was working under the midday Bangladesh sun and required to wear a hard hat and heavy steel-toed boots!

I don't think you could work faster barefoot -- if anything, I think you'd work faster in boots. (Admittedly, no one likes wearing respirators.) But even having access to work-provided basic PPE would be a victory.

[Dr Sardonicus]

Originally Posted by chalsall

Just as an example, I almost fell out of my chair laughing about this SlashDot post.

Then then I almost started crying...

Those without critical thinking skills (or those who want to deceive such people) will probably reference the linked article, titled "A Clean Energy’s Dirty Little Secret; Discarded solar panels are piling up all over the world, and they represent a major threat to the environment.

I suppose one would have to be lacking in critical thinking skills, not to at least wonder why the article was published in The National Review...

[chalsall]

Originally Posted by kladner

Storage is the crying need. Tesla is working on stationary storage to smooth out the peaks and valleys.

Please see this article.

Installed and working within 100 days, or its free.

[only_human]

Originally Posted by chalsall

Please see this article.

Installed and working within 100 days, or its free.

The 80MW California installation east of Los Angeles is at least in part expedited because of that hugh methane leak.
Tesla Gives the California Power Grid a Battery Boost
In Kauai, Hawaii, in addition to Tesla battery packs there are 50 acres of solar cell panels.
Tesla battery packs power the Hawaiian island of Kauai after dark