RDS's unique pedagogic ways

[retina]

Grades are an external thing that you can easily show to others to get interviews.

Knowledge and understanding is an internal thing that you can only demonstrate to an employer after meeting with them.

After joining an employer it is harder to get fired, and easier to stay on, if you have grades that say you are capable.

So it is obvious why people prefer to have grades: It becomes easier to procure a job. Real knowledge and understanding does not get you an interview if you have nothing on paper to show to prospective employers.

However, none of that has anything whatsoever to do with this forum.

Although I do like the idea of people trying to do learning for themselves, I feel that there are better ways to treat the IGG types that come here other than just saying "gibberish, go read a book". I just tend to ignore the IGG folk simply because I usually don't know the answers. But even when I do know the answers I rarely feel enthusiastic to respond simply because I feel it is mostly a waste of time to spoon feed people. Others here make replies that are very good and I couldn't explain some of the things as well, so it is probably best that I don't stick my oar in and confuse things more for the OP.

I don't have any high qualifications. I have never pursued getting those bit of paper to show off. This has cost me many opportunities and created problems but I don't regret not chasing formal qualifications. Almost everything I know, the little of it that there is, I have learned for myself, and there is a particular kind of satisfaction when new understanding is found that is hard to describe and can't be faked with formal qualifications. I find rote learning to be tedious and boring. I am much more interested in the process of learning rather than the results. I try to discover different things in new ways. And often this leads to a much finer understanding of the ways things work, and in new ways to learn things.

I joined this board to help me to understand the mathematics behind some of the things I have programmed. It is easy to program up a routine to do RSA, ECC, BCH etc. but to actually understand what they do is a higher stage that I wanted to achieve. I've finally "got" RSA and ECC ... but BCH ... well, I've actually held off posting a question here for more than one year now because I am still trying to find an answer for myself. Maybe in another years time I will have either finally "got it", or I will capitulate and post a question here. We'll see.

[davieddy]

Originally Posted by retina

IGG types that come here other than just saying "gibberish, go read a book". I just tend to ignore the IGG folk.
<minor snip here>
I've finally "got" RSA and ECC ... but BCH ...

These TLAs are doing my head in, but I do like Iggy Pop

David

PS May as well add RDS to that list
Or even DAE since its my anniversary:)

[retina]

Originally Posted by davieddy

These TLAs are doing my head in ...

After BCH is trying to learn QS and NFS. And the continuing effort to discredit CF and OU fraudsters. Not forgetting all that CPU and GPU code for finding MPs with FFT based LLs, and doing preliminary TF/ECM/P-1.

Have some more and your head will feel better (until tomorrow morning).

[davieddy]

Ain't no inn u end o

[cheesehead]

Originally Posted by Uncwilly

SubjectMatterExpert

An apt appellation for display just above Mr. Silverman's avatar?

[Brian-E]

Originally Posted by Uncwilly

SubjectMatterExpert

Originally Posted by cheesehead

An apt appellation for display just above Mr. Silverman's avatar?

What a great idea. And how about "Gratuitous Student" above all other avatars?

[R.D. Silverman]

Originally Posted by retina

Grades are an external thing that you can easily show to others to get interviews.

Knowledge and understanding is an internal thing that you can only demonstrate to an employer after meeting with them.

After joining an employer it is harder to get fired, and easier to stay on, if you have grades that say you are capable.

No. Once you gain employment you must prove that you have the
knowledge and understanding. Grades mean nothing. As you say,
grades may get you an interview. But at least where I work you must
show real knowledge during the interview.

I rarely feel enthusiastic to respond simply because I feel it is mostly a waste of time to spoon feed people.

But I am willing to make the effort. I only require that those
asking questions put in the effort to learn.

[retina]

Originally Posted by R.D. Silverman

Once you gain employment you must prove that you have the
knowledge and understanding. Grades mean nothing. As you say,
grades may get you an interview. But at least where I work you must
show real knowledge during the interview.

I accept that your workplace is one of those rare places where you must have both (grades, and knowledge). But with so few people that fit that demographic it is easy for others with only grades to gain employment elsewhere since their only competition is other people that also only have the grades.

And what about those people with knowledge and not the grades? I expect that your workplace would have very few, and maybe none, on the payroll. Since those without grades would be unlikely to be invited to the first interview without some serious amount of recommendation from others.

Very often, employers have no choice but to invite interviewees based upon grades. It is the one objective criterion available in most resumes. I have contacted potential employers at places where I know I have the requisite knowledge, but because of no qualifications they are simply not interested to pursue anything. Even pay scales in many large companies are primarily based upon the employees qualifications. It is only the smaller companies where knowledge and experience (rather than seniority and qualifications) can have some weight in the consideration process. Students know this, of course. And since joining large companies is generally a more desired goal for students it is no surprise that the grades are the thing the students aim for.

[R.D. Silverman]

Originally Posted by retina

I accept that your workplace is one of those rare places where you must have both (grades, and knowledge). But with so few people that fit that demographic it is easy for others with only grades to gain employment elsewhere since their only competition is other people that also only have the grades.

We do leading edge engineering. If our products fail, people die.

[Random Poster]

Originally Posted by R.D. Silverman

YES THEY DO. The very act of asking questions of SMEs makes them into students.

So you think that the mere act of asking questions means that they are giving you consent to dictate what they must learn. I very seriously doubt they agree with that.

[R.D. Silverman]

Originally Posted by Random Poster

So you think that the mere act of asking questions means that they are giving you consent to dictate what they must learn. I very seriously doubt they agree with that.

Students do not decide what is to be taught. Faculty do.

Students often do not like being told that they must learn something
in which they have no interest. This is nothing new.