Universal Health-Care Debate

[cheesehead]

Originally Posted by ewmayer

the grossly disproportionate amount of money spent on the last few weeks of life (e.g. keeping moribund patients on life support at all costs)

On that matter:

"Health Care's Generation Gap"

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/17/op...17dooling.html

Originally Posted by Richard Dooling

IN the 1980s, I worked as a respiratory therapist in intensive-care units in the Midwest, taking care of elderly, dying patients on ventilators. I remember marveling, along with the young doctors and nurses I worked with, over how many millions of dollars were spent performing insanely expensive procedures, scans and tests on patients who would never regain consciousness or leave the hospital.

When the insurance ran out, or Medicare stopped paying, patients and their families gave the hospital liens on their homes to pay for this care. Families spent their entire savings so Grandma could make yet another trip to the surgical suite on the slim-to-none chance that bypass surgery, a thoracotomy, an endoscopy or kidney dialysis might get her off the ventilator and out of the hospital in time for her 88th birthday.

That was back in the mid-’80s, when the nation was spending around 8 percent of its gross domestic product on health care. I and other health care workers solemnly agreed that the spending spree could not continue. Taxpayers and insurance companies would eventually revolt and refuse to pay for such end-of-life care. Somebody would surely expose the ruse for what it was: an enormous transfer of wealth based on the pretense that getting old and dying is a medical emergency requiring high-tech intensive-care intervention and armies of specialists, which could cost $10,000 or more per day. (Europeans have so far resisted this delusion, one reason they spend much less than we do on health care, with far better results.)

But we were wrong. Health care spending has since doubled, to around 16 percent of our gross domestic product, and in the next 25 years or so is projected to reach 31 percent of G.D.P. ...

. . .

With so much evidence of wasteful and even harmful treatment, shouldn’t we instantly cut some of the money spent on exorbitant intensive-care medicine for dying, elderly people and redirect it to pediatricians and obstetricians offering preventive care for children and mothers? Sadly, we are very far from this goal. A cynic would argue that this can’t happen because children can’t vote (even if their parents can), whereas members of AARP and the American Medical Association not only vote but can also hire lobbyists to keep the money flowing.

One thing’s for sure: Our health care system has failed. Generational spending wars loom on the horizon. Rationing of health care is imminent. But given the political inertia, we could soon find ourselves in a triage situation in which there is no time or money to create medical-review boards to ponder cost-containment issues or rationing schemes. We’ll be forced to implement quick-and-dirty rules based on something simple, sensible and easily verifiable. Like age. As in: No federal funds to be spent on intensive-care medicine for anyone over 85.

I am not, of course, talking about euthanasia. I’m just wondering why the nation continues incurring enormous debt to pay for bypass surgery and titanium-knee replacements for octogenarians and nonagenarians, when for just a small fraction of those costs we could provide children with preventive health care and nutrition. Eight million children have no health insurance, but their parents pay 3 percent of their salaries to Medicare to make sure that seniors get the very best money can buy in prescription drugs for everything from restless leg syndrome to erectile dysfunction, scooters and end-of-life intensive care.

. . .

I agree that this "disproportionate amount of money spent on the last few weeks of life" looks like a prime area for finding the Medicare cuts to help pay for other parts of whatever health care/insurance bill is emerging.

BTW - disclosure: Medicare has been my only medical insurance since my disability began. That doesn't mean I'm going to defend it or resist cuts -- especially ones that make sense, like this one.

In fact, that's why I've never joined AARP -- I haven't wanted my money used to lobby for preserving the Medicare status quo ("Keep the government's hands off my Medicare!" ).

OTOH, maybe I should join (my dues will be such a small fraction), in order to be informed of whatever AARP is pushing -- so I'll know what to oppose in my own letters-to-Congress!

[__HRB__]

Originally Posted by cheesehead

BTW - disclosure: Medicare has been my only medical insurance since my disability began.

Which illustrates why Medicare is a total failure.

We taxpayers are essentially forced to pay for your medication, because the goddamn fuckers cannot balance budgets, and now you have the gall to complain about the quality of the lactose in the tablets you have been prescribed to deal with your case of dementia?

Since you're OK with living in a kleptocratic police state, we will have little compassion for you when the arm of the law breaks into your lodgings and forces you to voluntarily take the KCN pills, in the same way it forces us tax-subjects to fork over enough dough to make them go away or else.

[garo]

Well, we taxpayers fund your care in the Greater Binghamton Health Center http://www.omh.state.ny.us/omhweb/facilities/bipc/facility.htm
and even provide you with free Internet access so I see no reason why we can't cover cheesehead's Medicare bills.

[__HRB__]

Originally Posted by garo

Well, we taxpayers fund your care in the Greater Binghamton Health Center http://www.omh.state.ny.us/omhweb/facilities/bipc/facility.htm
and even provide you with free Internet access so I see no reason why we can't cover cheesehead's Medicare bills.

Dream on.

That place is funded by people declaring their rich relatives mentally unfit and confiscating their property, and the fiscal highwaymen get a kick-back via the estate-tax, so you're not funding anything.

It's win-win-win! (unless you're rich, of course).

[cheesehead]

Originally Posted by __HRB__

Which illustrates why Medicare is a total failure.

Your follow-up illustrates why you're such a dummy. You're clever, but you have such tunnel-vision that your reasonings are absurd rather than profound.

I decided to peek at your latest post because I predicted that you would rise to my Medicare bait, especially considering garo's response, and also display your disinterest in gathering a factual basis for criticism of me.

We taxpayers are essentially forced to pay for your medication, because the goddamn fuckers cannot balance budgets, and now you have the gall to complain about the quality of the lactose in the tablets you have been prescribed to deal with your case of dementia?

Folks,

As an exercise: In how many different respects has HRB shown no interest in determining facts about me (or others in this forum) before projecting his preconceptions and imaginings upon me (or others in this forum)?

For example, he seems to think I've never worked and paid taxes. Those of you who've been here longer know that I did indeed work in a well-paid profession for a long time before my disability. I've paid hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes, including of course the FICA deductions every paycheck. But that possibility would threaten HRB's fantasy portrayal, so of course he's never made any attempt to get the facts straight.

His comments seems to be based on an assumption that he's free to ignore any history before he joined this forum. That way, he can feel more free to spin any sort of fantasy he wants (and of course he wants it to portray him as superior to everyone else) about the past lives of any other contributor and say any nasty thing that enters his mind he wants to.

Since you're OK with living in a kleptocratic police state < snip >

Folks,

See? -- No interest whatsoever in having a reasonable discussion with me on the basis of reality.

Oh -- here's a key piece of evidence about him:

He started attacking me only after I first described the logical fallacies in a posting of his.

HRB's highest priority seems to be to appear clever and superior to all other participants. When he first realized that I threatened that deception -- that's when he started attacking me. Look it up.

[__HRB__]

Originally Posted by cheesehead

Those of you who've been here longer know that I [...] ignore [...] any other contributor and [...] See [...] No interest whatsoever in having a reasonable discussion [...] on the basis of reality.

.

[CRGreathouse]

Originally Posted by __HRB__

.

Now now.

[__HRB__]

Originally Posted by CRGreathouse

Now now.

Aw, c'mon. Maybe cheesehead has a heart condition, and I'm only doing my part, to keep medical costs down by increasing the likelihood of him having an apoplexy.

[cheesehead]

HRB,

Maybe you believe in the Bible Code, too. :-)

You're obviously smart. You seem to have a lot of anger. Please, if you haven't already done so, get some counseling about your emotional problems. If you are already getting counseling, stick with it. If one counselor doesn't seem to be doing you any good, try another -- there can be vast differences in how helpful counselors can be for any particular counselee. Cognitive therapy could do you a lot of good, bring happiness to your life.

[__HRB__]

Originally Posted by cheesehead

HRB,

Maybe you believe in the Bible Code, too. :-)

You're obviously smart. You seem to have a lot of anger. Please, if you haven't already done so, get some counseling about your emotional problems. If you are already getting counseling, stick with it. If one counselor doesn't seem to be doing you any good, try another -- there can be vast differences in how helpful counselors can be for any particular counselee. Cognitive therapy could do you a lot of good, bring happiness to your life.

What you always wanted to know about cheesehead, but didn't dare to ask:

Originally Posted by cheesehead's spinal cord

Maybe if I appear relaxed and come up with a really cool :-) retort, he'll realize what a really cool guy I am and stop making fun of mee the counselee (hey, that ryhmes!). Life would be so much easier for me, if he were a retarded socialist, too.

Note to self: Increasing medication by 2 pills makes everything so very colorful!!!!

[garo]

Good post by Matt Taibbi on Healthcare and Newt Gingrich.

http://trueslant.com/matttaibbi/2009...-of-life-care/