Slaughter in Gaza

[kladner]

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/..._lies_20140803

The Big Lie destroys any possibility of history and therefore any hope for a dialogue between antagonistic parties that can be grounded in truth and reality. While, as Hannah Arendt pointed out, the ancient and modern sophists sought to win an argument at the expense of the truth, those who wield the Big Lie “want a more lasting victory at the expense of reality.” The old sophists, she said, “destroyed the dignity of human thought.” Those who resort to the Big Lie “destroy the dignity of human action.” The result, Arendt warned, is that “history itself is destroyed, and its comprehensibility.” And when facts no longer matter, when there is no shared history grounded in the truth, when people foolishly believe their own lies, there can be no useful exchange of information. The Big Lie, used like a bludgeon by Israel, as perhaps it is designed to be, ultimately reduces all problems in the world to the brutish language of violence. And when oppressed people are addressed only through violence they will answer only through violence.

[tha]

Originally Posted by Prime95

Get out of the blame game and into the solution game.

During the Cold war (1946-1989) the Germans used to say 'the shorter the range of the missiles, the more dead amongst the Germans.' Likewise both the Palestinian people and the Israelis are sick and tired of this conflict. Both people have no problems with each others existence and peacefully cooperate with each other on a day to day basis. Plans for a two state solution have been worked out, approved by both sides and are kept maintained.

However, a peaceful solution would have profound effects on the rest of the Middle-East. So, the billions that are needed to maintain a continuous state of war keep flowing in. As long as Europe and the US are not prepared to be as ruthless as Iran and others in their interference the problem is going to remain.

You state you are afraid the current Gaza war approach does not help to increase the Palestinian people to tolerate Israel. Did you notice the people on the West Bank did not go out on the streets like the Arabs in Europe? Did you notice they spent their time in restaurants complaining about Hamas? Maybe they know something we don't.

[R.D. Silverman]

Originally Posted by tha

Did you notice the people on the West Bank did not go out on the streets like the Arabs in Europe? Did you notice they spent their time in restaurants complaining about Hamas? Maybe they know something we don't.

Perhaps.

I believe that as an American citizen I am responsible for the actions of
my government. Even if I did not vote for those currently in power.
I believe this to be true universally.

Hamas was put in place by the citizens of the West Bank. If they disapprove
of their government, it is their responsibility to get rid of Hamas.

[tha]

Originally Posted by R.D. Silverman

Perhaps.

I believe that as an American citizen I am responsible for the actions of
my government. Even if I did not vote for those currently in power.
I believe this to be true universally.

Hamas was put in place by the citizens of the West Bank. If they disapprove
of their government, it is their responsibility to get rid of Hamas.

I subscribe to your statement about people being responsible for their government. As far as the citizens of the West Bank are concerned, they did not vote for Hamas, the people of Gaza did. Before those elections, the Iranians, through Hamas, handled out all kind of social welfare goodies. Including many fashionable clothes that women are forbidden to wear in Iran itself. Once they won the elections they kicked Fatah out at the cost of quite some lives. By no means are the people of Gaza able to influence their fate unless they wage a very bloody war against their patrons and their henchman.

Europeans and Americans underestimate the infrastructure that is needed to support a democracy. Elections are only a minor part of the process. It was easy for the ayatollahs to detail the process.

The people in the West Bank know this very well, they know that they are targeted by Iran as well and therefore do not support the actions of Hamas against Israel.

[R.D. Silverman]

Originally Posted by tha

Europeans and Americans underestimate the infrastructure that is needed to support a democracy. .

It isn't the infrastructure. It is the mindset of the population.

[chalsall]

Originally Posted by R.D. Silverman

It isn't the infrastructure. It is the mindset of the population.

I found this interesting.

Again, I have no skin in this game. I'm simply trying to understand what is actually going on.

[kladner]

http://readersupportednews.org/news-...dis-in-one-day

The above is horrible beyond imagining. It does not diminish the horrors in Gaza. Terrible things happening in one place do not make terrible things elsewhere any less terrible.

[R.D. Silverman]

Originally Posted by kladner

http://readersupportednews.org/news-...dis-in-one-day

The above is horrible beyond imagining. It does not diminish the horrors in Gaza. Terrible things happening in one place do not make terrible things elsewhere any less terrible.

Agreed.

However, it may suggest that Muslims do not value each other's lives
which in turn makes their complaints about Gaza into a farce.

Oh, wait! Its OK if they do it to each other, but not OK for the hated
Jews to do it......

[xilman]

Originally Posted by R.D. Silverman

However, it may suggest that Muslims do not value each other's lives
which in turn makes their complaints about Gaza into a farce.

By the same argument, WW2 suggests that Christians do not (or did not) value each others lives.

I don't find your argument very convincing.

[R.D. Silverman]

Originally Posted by xilman

By the same argument, WW2 suggests that Christians do not (or did not) value each others lives.

I would say that that is an accurate statement.

I don't find your argument very convincing.

I didn't expect that it would.

[tha]

Originally Posted by kladner

http://readersupportednews.org/news-...dis-in-one-day

The above is horrible beyond imagining. It does not diminish the horrors in Gaza. Terrible things happening in one place do not make terrible things elsewhere any less terrible.

That is correct. It for sure however exposes the western press, public and politicians as very hypocrite and very ill informed.