Electric Scooter

[michaf]

I'm pondering about buying an electrical scooter (The gas-prices are rediculous in Holland :( ).

I was wondering what your thoughts might be on whether they are practical. (and most especially if you have had any experience with them)

My situation:
Now: 30 km away from work, but reachable comfortably with train-travel (albeit also way too expensive
Wife and kid (3yo) at home, a car is available.

In half a year: 30 km away from work, but 'unreachable' by train/bus (ok, it is possible, but it will be a 2 hour commute one way).

The range of these things is about 60km, so that should suffice.

Happy to hear your thoughts

[ewmayer]

No scooter expert here, but when it comes to all-electrics I always wonder about their efficiency relative to gas-powered analogues. If you're mainly concerned about inner-city air quality, then yes, electrics are the way to go. But if you're concerned about any of price/convenience/overall-environmental-impact it might pay to compare with a high-end [i.e. one with something better than a crap 2-stroke engine] gas-powered model - especially if your electricity is generated using carbon-based fuels. Any scooter fans here know how the carbon footprint of e.g. a high-end Vespa compares with an all-electric? I'm pretty sure the range and convenience factor of the gas model would both be higher.

[bsquared]

Also no scooter expert, but I'd be concerned about a 60km range with a 60km round trip. No margin at all would be worrisome unless you plan to re-charge at work somehow...

[michaf]

Originally Posted by ewmayer

No scooter expert here, but when it comes to all-electrics I always wonder about their efficiency relative to gas-powered analogues. If you're mainly concerned about inner-city air quality, then yes, electrics are the way to go. But if you're concerned about any of price/convenience/overall-environmental-impact it might pay to compare with a high-end [i.e. one with something better than a crap 2-stroke engine] gas-powered model - especially if your electricity is generated using carbon-based fuels. Any scooter fans here know how the carbon footprint of e.g. a high-end Vespa compares with an all-electric? I'm pretty sure the range and convenience factor of the gas model would both be higher.

Here's one link with the comparison, is doesn't look too bad too me;
http://www.1000ps.at/forum.asp?thema...d=1796737#view
(in German, but the general idea will be clear I guess;blue line is electrical, others are gasoline)

As for footprint, an elecrical motor is much more efficient than any other engine, the motor is directly on the axle. So even if it is generated by fossil fuels, I reckon it will still have a smaller footprint (or else electricity would be priced higher)

I forgot to mention the one I'm pondering upon:
http://www.ioscooter.nl/scooter.html
has the technical info on it.

@bsquared:

Yep,I can recharge it at work :)
saves me another 12 cents a day.

(that's one big plus... about €0,25 per 70 km (let's say they bluff half of it: € 0,50 per 70 km...) Compared to even 'normal' scooters that's ridiculously low.
One thing that concerns me, is that I haven't found a price-tab for a spare battery... I'm now calculating on a € 200,- per year basis...

So in short:

Advantages for me:

* Price per km
* Air-quality
* noise-level
* maintenance is lower (less moving parts, no oil,no gas, no belts, chains etc)

Disadvantages:
* Short range (albeit enough for a roundtrip, especially when recharging. I won't have the need for longer trips, as I intend to keep the car
* Speed? Actually no idea how it scales, I can lend a scooter (gasoline) from a friend to try out how long a round-trip takes. If it will be more then 75 minutes, I'm pretty sure I've lost my appetite...
* Battery life?

[Uncwilly]

My local daily newspaper has a motorcycle columnist. Several electric bikes have been reviewed. There are some that will make you feel like you have a rocket. 30km is well with in the range of several (especially with a recharge at work). Alas, I don't know about those in your area.

A word on comute time "lane splitting" will make you smile and drivers hate you.

[michaf]

Originally Posted by Uncwilly

My local daily newspaper has a motorcycle columnist. Several electric bikes have been reviewed. There are some that will make you feel like you have a rocket. 30km is well with in the range of several (especially with a recharge at work). Alas, I don't know about those in your area.

A word on comute time "lane splitting" will make you smile and drivers hate you.

I will go and make a test-ride first (on an electric)
I will go and make a test-ride for my future route (on a gasoline one, at the max speed of the electric)
That way I will have a feel for the difference (I've never driven a scooter in my life) and a feel for the time it takes to travel.

Nowadays, there are hardly ever traffic jams on that route, but with a major bridge opening in 2010, I'm pretty sure that the roads will flood with cars, which make a scooter even a better means then a car (a car trip would take me now about 25-30 minutes)

[KriZp]

I've driven a gaspowered scooter for the last 6-7 months, and I can recommend it for short distances atleast. It's very fun to drive past long lines of stopped cars at intersections. 30 km is rather on the long side perhaps, but holland is pretty flat so you should be able to keep the speed near maximum. If the speedlimit is below 60 km/h it's not hard to keep up with the cars. I was originally planning to buy an electric scooter actually, but I got a good deal on the one I bought.

[michaf]

Originally Posted by KriZp

I've driven a gaspowered scooter for the last 6-7 months, and I can recommend it for short distances atleast. It's very fun to drive past long lines of stopped cars at intersections. 30 km is rather on the long side perhaps, but holland is pretty flat so you should be able to keep the speed near maximum. If the speedlimit is below 60 km/h it's not hard to keep up with the cars. I was originally planning to buy an electric scooter actually, but I got a good deal on the one I bought.

Pretty flat... that's a nice way to put it :)
Highest point is 322.7 meters above sea level (Vaalserberg).
The road I must take is about as flat as a pancake (apart from bumps in the road to slow down the cars)

There are some villages in between, so I need to get weaving in and out of the bicycle lane every now and then (stupid trafficrule imho, on a scooter you'll need to be ON the bicycle lane if OUTside the villages, and vv)

I expect 30 km to take about 50-60 minutes with 45 km/h speed, but I'll need to test it first.

What were your thoughts on an electric one? (and which one did you have in mind?)

[xilman]

Originally Posted by ewmayer

No scooter expert here, but when it comes to all-electrics I always wonder about their efficiency relative to gas-powered analogues. If you're mainly concerned about inner-city air quality, then yes, electrics are the way to go. But if you're concerned about any of price/convenience/overall-environmental-impact it might pay to compare with a high-end [i.e. one with something better than a crap 2-stroke engine] gas-powered model - especially if your electricity is generated using carbon-based fuels. Any scooter fans here know how the carbon footprint of e.g. a high-end Vespa compares with an all-electric? I'm pretty sure the range and convenience factor of the gas model would both be higher.

First off, it's rather hard to get a 2-stroke scooter in Europe any more. It turned out to be far too hard to meet emission requirements with anything other than a 4-stroke engine.

I ran a 125cc Honda scooter for a year or so after my 650 was written off by a guy who ran into me in a supermarket carpark. Flat out was about 75mph (120km/h) and so fine around town but not really particularly comfortable on the commute along the M11 motorway I then had. De jure speed limit is 70mph; de facto is closer to 85mph and the big lorries were doing 55-60.

Incidentally, the Google maps view of my house still shows that scooter under its tarpaulin, after I'd bought my Pan but before I could sell the scooter.


Paul

[Uncwilly]

Originally Posted by michaf

Pretty flat... that's a nice way to put it :)
Highest point is 322.7 meters above sea level.

FYI, Florida, where George is from, the highest point is 345 ft (105 m). Now that is flat.
There are more than 50 buildings in Miami (2m msl) that are at least 50ft (15m) taller than the state high point.

[David John Hill Jr]

I wish I could still be one ,but several things stand in the way.
Firstly there is nothing like turning your hand and off you go:no spewing ,with a light hum.And compared to a gas model, no gas sodden hands-what little comes from other vehicles.
However, where I live the licence to drive is based differently on maximum speed,as compared to gas scooters.Check that.
With mine, I had bought a model that went out of business, and couldn't get replacements. I also found my model was burning wire in an ignition fuse box-just had to replace it once in a while.This became a major hindrance.
A heavy duty charger is necessary(more than the regular-that'l do by the manufacturer), especially if some shortage leaks occur.

I had a 28 mile range and went 14 each way,just, but it is better to charge at the other end, to avoid a slow crawl potential for the last mile home.
Mine had a 25mph max., so any highway with a minimum speed greater is prohibitive. Even still I found myself in 'side' lane to avoid holding up traffic.

As far as cost of charging that is peanuts, although I am talking from a 110V
grid country. However, 220V under normal circumstances shouldn't make much difference.
I still have mine for odd parts for a very similar gas model, and may recondition it sometime- and oh yes,, the number of batteries currently make them very heavy compared to the gas model, which effects your manpower requirements when doing just that.

Any more questions, be glad to help.