Marriage and other LGBTQ Rights

[chalsall]

Originally Posted by Xyzzy

Perhaps cities have fewer churches per square mile?

I get the joke (and thanks for that), but I would argue it will be a function of churches per human.

And Mosques. And Synagogues. And Buddhist temples.

And other places where people should feel (and hopefully usually are) safe, including just a nearby river, forest or park, or a library or a book store....

[kladner]

The last time I drove from Chicago to Texas, I took the more westerly route, which crosses Kansas and Oklahoma. I found the messages on the many church sign boards extremely depressing. Example: "Forget the Constitution. God's law rules."

I also found a line from Monty Python stuck in my head: "'elp, 'elp, Oim bein' oppressed!"

Of course, things were no better in much of Texas.

[Brian-E]

Originally Posted by chalsall

A sincere question...

Do you, or anyone, have a theory as to why the more "urban" areas (or, dare we say "metropolitan", in the case of cities) seem to be correlate with greater tolerance?

Might it be because being exposed to more diversity (or, at least, educated about same) one might become more tolerant of "the other"?

It's a really interesting question, and here's my personal opinion:

Yes, I think it has to do with being exposed to more diversity, but I think it's a bit more subtle - and sadly less honorable - than you imply.

People are inherently very choosy about who they count as their friends. They will prefer to be friendly with people who are similar in nature and attitudes to themselves. BUT: in a rural setting, where there are few people around, there is a greater need to be friendly with everyone, because otherwise you will not have enough friends. Therefore there will be less tolerance of people who are "different" in a rural situation, because that disrupts the perceived necessity of the small community being close-knit.

In an urban situation, on the other hand, anyone who is "different" can be safely ignored in favour of others as regards one's social circle, because there are plenty of people to choose from. "Different" people are therefore less disruptive to one's social network because they can easily remain as complete strangers.

That's only my opinion and it's not backed up by any scientific evidence as far as I'm aware. What do others here think?

[Brian-E]

Just another thought along the same lines:

Perhaps sporting teams, certainly professional ones for whose players the sport is pretty much their life, can be regarded as models, microcosm models, of a rural community. The players are strongly bonded together. Anyone who is perceived as "different" in the team has a serious negative influence on the whole team, because each player is too valuable to the team to ignore. If the team consisted of hundreds or thousands of players, on the other hand, it would not matter.

What do we see with professional team sports such as soccer, NFL, basketball, etc? They are amongst the very last areas of society where the members feel able to come out as lesbian or gay. In some of these professional sports, soccer for example, virtually no-one does to this day.

The professional NFL player Michael Sam has recently come out as gay. It is so unusual that it is huge news. And perhaps this article by the author Michael Brown, whose views on the subject I wholeheartedly disagree with, does at least have the merit of pinpointing the hang-ups which members of a close-knit, highly interdependent, community such as a professional NFL team have when a member comes out as gay. Brown thinks that Michael Sam should have kept his sexual orientation under wraps for the sake of his team.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/5-...player-114375/

I don't doubt the players who say that their focus is on sports, not sex, and I don't doubt that many gay athletes have never given a hint of their sexuality to their heterosexual teammates.

But once they have made their announcement, how can everyone be expected to feel completely comfortable? And with the "bromance" type of close relationships that many players enjoy, would they be as physical and free with a homosexual teammate?

[R.D. Silverman]

Originally Posted by chappy

http://www.kansascity.com/2014/02/11...d-on-bill.html

This is just religious based bigotry and hatred at its worst. Typical
Republican thinking.

And they claim that their religious rights are denied unless they
are allowed to discriminate against others.

Pure horseshit. The right to practice religion does not give one the
right to discriminate against others based upon those beliefs.

[kladner]

Originally Posted by R.D. Silverman

This is just religious based bigotry and hatred at its worst. Typical
Republican thinking.

And they claim that their religious rights are denied unless they
are allowed to discriminate against others.

Pure horseshit. The right to practice religion does not give one the
right to discriminate against others based upon those beliefs.

+1!

[R.D. Silverman]

Originally Posted by kladner

+1!

What puzzles me:

Where do they get all this hatred? Jesus preached love and tolerance.

[kladner]

Originally Posted by R.D. Silverman

What puzzles me:

Where do they get all this hatred? Jesus preached love and tolerance.

I'm good with blaming St Paul for laying the groundwork for the systems of controlling people through guilt and fear.

Throw in the Old Testament proscriptions, well spiced with Biblical Literalism, and filter it through a bunch of Talibangelists whose TV ratings and pools of marks contributors depend on how much fire and brimstone they spew, and all sorts of creepy-crawlies may come out which are quite at odds with the supposed reported words of Jesus.

[R.D. Silverman]

Originally Posted by kladner

I'm good with blaming St Paul for laying the groundwork for the systems of controlling people through guilt and fear.

Throw in the Old Testament proscriptions, well spiced with Biblical Literalism, and filter it through a bunch of Talibangelists whose TV ratings and pools of marks contributors depend on how much fire and brimstone they spew, and all sorts of creepy-crawlies may come out which are quite at odds with the supposed reported words of Jesus.

I have a different theory. These people are poorly educated. They
suffer from low self esteem and in order to feel good about themselves
they make themselves feel superior by finding a minority group to
belittle, put down, and pretend that they are "inferior" and not fully
human.

[kladner]

That is probably a better statement of the real mechanisms at play. However, such people are easy prey for bible thumpers.

[LaurV]

Originally Posted by R.D. Silverman

These people are poorly educated. They
suffer from low self esteem and in order to feel good about themselves
they make themselves feel superior by finding a minority group to
belittle, put down, and pretend that they are "inferior" and not fully
human.