Marriage and other LGBTQ Rights

[cheesehead]

Originally Posted by jasong

Here in the US, we don't get a choice with some of our taxes, so when homosexuals get tax write-offs for something we(I mean Christians in this case) find offensive, it kind of affects our own tax burden.

Ah, so you'd also agree that when other groups get tax write-offs for something that I (and those like-minded about that something) find offensive, it affects our own tax burden, too?

[Batalov]

I firmly believe that stable marriages are the foundation of society. Just look at Russia: now that Putin divorced, he will have to give his ex-wife 50% of the country, and living in a split country could be very stressful for his children populace.

[jasong]

Originally Posted by kladner

So, do you object to hetero-married couples getting to file joint returns if it benefits their tax situation? If not, why not? If so, since marriage is being defined by religious standards, how does this square with separation of church and state?

Unofficially, the government is supposed to stay "out of the bedroom." So why not define these unions in a non-gender way? I don't object to homosexuals getting tax write-offs, I object to the government officially approving of something that a large portion of the population finds offensive, and giving the offensive behavior a tax write-off.

What if I got a tax write off for going down to the local WalMart and jacking off outside the entrance every Sunday at noon? Would you be okay with that? Or, maybe a better example, what if I did it in the privacy of my own home, but got a tax write off for declaring my intentions in a legal document? Maybe next we should abolish bigamy laws, the more the merrier and all that. And someone get me a copy of the rulebook, because I want to know why people cheer homosexuals and yet a repented, non-violent pedophile is a horrible monster.

[chappy]

Originally Posted by jasong

Unofficially, the government is supposed to stay "out of the bedroom." So why not define these unions in a non-gender way? I don't object to homosexuals getting tax write-offs, I object to the government officially approving of something that a large portion of the population finds offensive, and giving the offensive behavior a tax write-off.

What if I got a tax write off for going down to the local WalMart and jacking off outside the entrance every Sunday at noon? Would you be okay with that? Or, maybe a better example, what if I did it in the privacy of my own home, but got a tax write off for declaring my intentions in a legal document? Maybe next we should abolish bigamy laws, the more the merrier and all that. And someone get me a copy of the rulebook, because I want to know why people cheer homosexuals and yet a repented, non-violent pedophile is a horrible monster.

When I first read this I had to get up and walk away from my computer. Which is good, because I'm right in the middle of making these.

And while I was preparing a ganache, I was grumbling to myself and coming up with (what I think are) scathing and brutal responses. And then I thought, "What would BrianE do?"

I'm not making this up--and a moment of universal clarity came upon me and I saw that I could take a moment and stop and try to be like a better man (in this case with the example close in my mind.)

Jason, I too think you are brave and courageous to tell us, a motley group of strangers, about your struggles. While I disagree with you on almost everything we happen to discuss on this most unimportant of forums, I have never considered you a monster. And I believe that despite our differences we have much more in common than we could ever have apart.

Brother, I'm sure you understand that I don't pray, but if I did, or if I thought that the complexity that is the universe actually gave a damn, I would ask it to help you find peace within yourself, right after I asked the same for myself.

[only_human]

Originally Posted by jasong

Unofficially, the government is supposed to stay "out of the bedroom." So why not define these unions in a non-gender way? I don't object to homosexuals getting tax write-offs, I object to the government officially approving of something that a large portion of the population finds offensive, and giving the offensive behavior a tax write-off.

What if I got a tax write off for

[...]
Jasong, they are getting a tax write-off because they are legally married. If you get legally married, you will get exactly the same tax write-off. Deciding that some legal marriages are not entitled to the tax write-off that everyone else get is wrong.

[kladner]

Chalsall: I find it a bit interesting that historically "gay" meant something along the lines of "happy" and "out-there". Perhaps it still does to most people...

Four of many definitions of gay:

She was a picture in old Spanish lace
Just for a tender while I kissed the smile upon her face
For it was fiesta, and we were so GAY
South of the border, down Mexico way.

Chris Isaac changed this line to "...and love had its day."
Sigh.

[Xyzzy]

And then I thought, "What would BrianE do?"

[kladner]

Originally Posted by chappy

(SNIP).....

Brother, I'm sure you understand that I don't pray, but if I did, or if I thought that the complexity that is the universe actually gave a damn, I would ask it to help you find peace within yourself, right after I asked the same for myself.

Well said, Sir! (All of it really is, but I'll focus on this part of it. Xyzzy already did a good job on the bigger picture.)

[jasong]

Originally Posted by kladner

Well said, Sir! (All of it really is, but I'll focus on this part of it. Xyzzy already did a good job on the bigger picture.)

What we have is a war of ideas rather than bullets. Ideas are what separate us from the animals, the ability to take knowledge and continuously build on it.

My position is that there is a thing that destroys the soul, something referred to as sin, and it is in the nature of people to seek these destructive factors. Brian E is a real nice guy, probably better than me in a lot of ways. Homosexuality is destructive, but it's only a tiny part of the destruction the Devil's been building over the last 10 thousand years or so.

Think of Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz. Everyone was wearing green-tinted spectacles so that they'd think everything was made of emeralds. Well I'm telling you that Christianity is the removal of those spectacles, and that the reality is so much better than what you've been offered in the past.

The only thing that is eternal is the soul, and it is the only thing that is truly valuable.

[xilman]

Originally Posted by jasong

The only thing that is eternal is the soul, and it is the only thing that is truly valuable.

Ah, souls.

[chappy]

Originally Posted by jasong

Think of Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz. Everyone was wearing green-tinted spectacles so that they'd think everything was made of emeralds. Well I'm telling you that Christianity is the removal of those spectacles, and that the reality is so much better than what you've been offered in the past.

First I want to appreciate that you are referring back to the books. Yes, Emerald city was city colored, not green. :)

Second, I want you to look up the phrase "Friend of Dorothy."

Third, we are still in the age where most atheists you will run into grew up Christian. We've seen what you see. And we also have very different ideas about which side is fooling themselves.

Fourth,

Originally Posted by jasong

Homosexuality is destructive

have you met any homosexual people? Because they are just people. No better and no worse than anyone else. And until and unless you can come up with something more than "an ancient book seems to tell me that it is bad" and/or "I don't like it cause its icky," as a set of premises arguing the validity of that line, I'm going to feel free to ignore it.