Marriage and other LGBTQ Rights

[gd_barnes]

Originally Posted by jasong

Even if someone is born gay, that doesn't make it okay, maybe I was destined to grow up to be attracted to underage girls. Just because something feels natural doesn't mean it's okay to fully embrace those feelings. When I was 15, I would just naturally close my eyes when someone pissed me off. Then I did it when my dad was teaching me to drive, which is obviously not ok. My sexual urges, and a lot of other things, are not ok despite the fact that they "feel natural."

It's like those women held prisoner in that basement. He probably felt that having women imprisoned in his basement was totally awesome, when it's obvious to most people that it's "not ok."

You just can't do it can you? Please just answer the simple question. At what age did you decide to be straight (assuming that you are straight)?

Also, why are you saying that your sexual urges are not OK? Are you hiding something?

[Brian-E]

Originally Posted by gd_barnes

You just can't do it can you? Please just answer the simple question. At what age did you decide to be straight (assuming that you are straight)?

Also, why are you saying that your sexual urges are not OK? Are you hiding something?

Your question ("At what age did you decide to be straight (assuming that you are straight)?") is obviously legitimate and relevant. But do please note that jasong is not hiding. On the contrary, he has been extremely frank about his sexual urges here on the forum in recent months, and in fact repeats that frankness in the very post which you quote. Perhaps you have misunderstood him.

[gd_barnes]

Originally Posted by Brian-E

Your question ("At what age did you decide to be straight (assuming that you are straight)?") is obviously legitimate and relevant. But do please note that jasong is not hiding. On the contrary, he has been extremely frank about his sexual urges here on the forum in recent months, and in fact repeats that frankness in the very post which you quote. Perhaps you have misunderstood him.

OK, I had assumed that he was not OK with normal sexual urges, indicating extreme conservatism in that matter. Now I understand his response a little better.

Jason, the question still stands although worded slightly differently. At what age did you "decide" about the type of people that you would be attracted to? Or are you admitting that you were born that way?

[jasong]

Originally Posted by gd_barnes

OK, I had assumed that he was not OK with normal sexual urges, indicating extreme conservatism in that matter. Now I understand his response a little better.

Jason, the question still stands although worded slightly differently. At what age did you "decide" about the type of people that you would be attracted to? Or are you admitting that you were born that way?

I was probably born straight, but it's also possible that I was pre-destined(I call it a sin nature, though others may call it genetics or brain chemistry, or...) to be attracted to underage girls. Maybe it's a similar situation with Jeffrey Dahmer(sp?) and his murderous urges.

My point is that just because we really want to do something doesn't make it ok, even if it "feels natural." We all have our weaknesses, it's just the particulars that are different.

Ultimately, it comes down to what we trust for guidance in these things. I believe I was created by an infinitely powerful being who was willing to come down to Earth in the form of a human being and die a horrible death to reconcile the huge spiritual gap between Himself and the human race. If someone doesn't believe in this occurrence, then tolerating homosexuality makes perfect sense.

There, I just explained where the difference of opinion is for the vast majority of people who think this is an important issue.

[kladner]

Jason: Ultimately, it comes down to what we trust for guidance in these things. I believe I was created by an infinitely powerful being who was willing to come down to Earth in the form of a human being and die a horrible death to reconcile the huge spiritual gap between Himself and the human race. If someone doesn't believe in this occurrence, then tolerating homosexuality makes perfect sense.

Frank Zappa:
In the beginning God made 'the light.' Shortly thereafter God made three big mistakes. The first mistake was called MAN, the second mistake was called WO-MAN, and the third mistake was the invention of THE POODLE. Now the reason the poodle was such a big mistake is because God originally wanted to build a Schnauzer, but he fucked up. Now a long time ago, the poodle used to be a very attractive dog. The poodle had hair evenly distributed all over its small piquant canine type BODY. That's the way it used to be, the poodle used to be a regular looking dog. You know it's true, I guess you do too. (Oh, I have to kiss you? Oh okay.)

However, said god is said to be perfect and can do anything. Thus, whatever it made humans and poodles to be is what it intended to do. This brings us from the gospel according to Saint Frank of Zappa, to the Apocrypha of Depressed Mood, aka Depeche Mode. To wit, this god is one mean-assed mofo to set things up like this, and it's got a "sick sense of humor."

Or to put it another way,

Save me, save me, save me
Save me, save me, save me

The candles are lit, the curtains are drawn
There's still no sign of rain nor dawn
Our lips touch, our limbs entwine
But the ghosts that haunt me won't leave my mind

Save me, save me, save me
Save me, save me, from myself

One sin leads to another one
Oh, the, the harder I try
I can never, never, never find peace in this life
I ask myself where does lust come from

Is it something to yield to or be overcome
I ask myself
Why love can never touch my heart like fear does?
Why can't love ever touch my heart like fear does?

[SNIP]...................................................................[SNIP]

Well, I've been crushing the symptoms
But I can't locate the cause
Could God really be so cruel?
To give us feelings that could never be fulfilled

Baby, I've got my sights set on you, I've got my sight set on you
And someday, someday, someday, you'll come my way
But when you put your arms around me
I'll be lookin' over your shoulder for somethin' new

'Cause I ain't ever found peace upon the breast of a girl
I ain't ever found peace with the religion of the world
I ain't ever found peace at the bottom of a glass

Sometimes it seems the more I ask for, the less I receive
Sometimes it seems the more I ask for, the less I receive
The only true freedom is freedom from the heart's desires
And the only true happiness this way lies

-Matt Johnson, The The

[jasong]

So now we're posting random song lyrics as posts?

I'm got some Weird Al tunes I like, can I respond with those?

[kladner]

Originally Posted by jasong

So now we're posting random song lyrics as posts?

I'm got some Weird Al tunes I like, can I respond with those?

The quotes are not at all random. They address the topics of human nature and deity mythology

Who knows, Weird Al often makes points more subtle than surface appearances. Let's see if yours are germane.

[chappy]

I thought Weird Al was Yugoslavian not Germane. Either way we didn't give up when he attacked Pearl Harbor.

In any case, I want to ask a question that kind of bugs me. Let's say that some people will never accept that homosexuality is a moral lifestyle. What does that have to do with married guys being legit again anyhow? Shouldn't gay men have to suffer through marraige just like the rest of us? Surely people wouldn't accept that Gays shouldn't pay taxes (except perhaps in the most extreme forms of ancient text literalism that might call for stoning--none of which has shown up on this forum), or get a driver's license.

Just hours after the Supreme Court's Latest Worst Decision^tm several southern states moved to disenfranchise large groups of voters. Granted I understand WHY they are doing it--because these voters are 1) the other 2) not likely to vote for them and their policies. But, the point remains that it is still fundamentally wrong. These are the same people who wear gaudy American flag pins on their lapels and talk a great deal about America this and America that, and Constitution this and Constitution that. Yet they don't seem to understand the practical implications of all the great ideal of freedom.

Which is a long way around to say, wouldn't the reasonable and just and righteous thing to do is support the rights of people you don't agree with even though you don't agree with them?


PS. Where is Zeta? I'd like to resume our discussion on why Scalia is the worst Supreme since Florence Ballard.

[Brian-E]

Originally Posted by chappy

PS. Where is Zeta? I'd like to resume our discussion on why Scalia is the worst Supreme since Florence Ballard.

The Toxic Geckos have been wondering this about our missing team member for two months. I'm hoping the latest Supreme Court decision now entices him back to mersenneforum.org even if the chess has bored him.

[ewmayer]

Originally Posted by chappy

I thought Weird Al was Yugoslavian not Germane.

Actually, if he's a yugo that is very germane to a discussion of his ethnicity. ;)

But someone should do a deeper background czech to be sure.

[xilman]

Originally Posted by ewmayer

Actually, if he's a yugo that is very germane to a discussion of his ethnicity. ;)

But someone should do a deeper background czech to be sure.

They are Poles apart, but don't Russian to something Jude regret.