Keeping the Heat down at Home - Page 3

Albaby348 · 2002-08-30, 02:19

How did you people learn about setting up a home farm?

Tasuke · 2002-08-30, 02:35

Trial and a lot of error. Very rewarding in the end though.

outlnder · 2002-08-30, 02:41

I just built 15 machines and put them on a steel rack I purchased from KMart.

They all have NICs connected to hubs and the hubs are connected to a router which is connected to the Internet via cable modem.

I have an extra monitor, keyboard and mouse that I plug into each machine if something goes wrong or I need to change something.

It's a bit more time consuming than VNC or NAT, but then I don't have to configure a whole bunch of IP addresses.

A few things you need to remember about home farming.

1) There is an awful lot of noise. With a minimum of 2 fans per case, it gets loud.
2) Expensive, not only to build, but the monthly electric bill. Mine is over $120 each month.
3) You need extension cords from all over the house to round out the power supply. You can't put 15 machines on 2 or 3 wall sockets. You'll blow a fuse or circuit breaker. You need to spread it out over multiple fuses or breakers.
4) Upkeep. You have to babysit your machines until you are sure they can run unattended. If you build one a month, then each one would have a month's running you can watch. Operating systems are not the most stable things in the world. Some crash for no reason. Some installs don't work well, you may need to reformat and reinstall.
5) Don't use crappy parts. Even if they are free or cheap. They will always come back to haunt you. Get decent stuff that will last and won't cause computer failure.
6) Try to get identical parts. This will help if and when hard drives fail. If all the drivers are the same, then hard drive swaps are easy.
7) Power supplies must be sufficient for the hardware. Don't skimp on PSUs. Without enough power, your machines are door stops.
8) You only need one floppy and CDROM drive. Plug them in when you install, then remove when not needed anymore. Make sure you make the appropriate BIOS entries.
9) If you go with cases, leave the sides off for better cooling. Yes, this makes them louder, but the added cooling is what stops errors, especially in Prime95.

Any questions, just ask. We would love to help.

Tasuke · 2002-08-30, 02:57

I go a different route then outlnder. I have no rack. My comps are spread about the apartment. I use a remote program to check on my comps, carrying a monitor around sucks. Lets just say that my power bill is higher. I have a really poor cooling situation in my apartment, and a rugrat. That means really large heatsinks made of copper and aluminum, with larger slower fans(ever hear a delta screamer fan?)more CFM from an 80 mm fan than you will get out of the 60mm that most heatsinks use.

And I really try to over-buy my powersupplies. The better ones have high power ratings, and 2 MUCH quieter fans. And do not use a via chipset if you can. They are great for systems that are not on for days at a time. But they always seem to fail(bsod or random crash) if they are stressed for stretches.

Lumly · 2002-08-30, 05:09

Here’s my take on farming for GIMPS.

1. Living situation

1.1. Where to set up?

I live in an apartment with an extra room that I just didn’t use for anything so I’ve been able to convert it to my farm room. I lucked out in that this room is fed by two separate power circuits.

1.2. What to consider in terms of safety

I have cats and, as anyone who has ever had a cat knows, they jump all over the place and stick their noses in everything. Thus, I have to put everything in cases and I have to keep the sides on them. This means extra cost in both cases and case fans. Also, if you have toddlers, well even more reason to close everything up so it’s safe.

2. Hardware

2.1. What CPU?

If you are farming for GIMPS then you are going to buy a P4 variant, probably a northwood. Get the retail version that comes with the heatsink and fan and use them. They work great.

2.1.2. Thermal Pad? Am I nuts? No!

Unless you are going to overclock using VCore adjustments then you can easily get away with just using the thermal pads the P4s come with. My systems run at the same temperature as Arctic Silvered systems, and they are overclocked using FSB only. I know I’m going to get flak from this, but you can’t argue with results.

2.2. Motherboard

Even if you don’t want to overclock, get a motherboard that supports at least some overclocking options. This will let you extend the life of your computers once they start showing their age. You do not need to get one that has incremental FSB adjustments. Save some money and get a board that gives you a few settings ranging from 100 to 133.

2.3. Ram

You can save some cash and get only 128 MB of PC2100 DDR. The only hindrance with a system that only has this much ram is the P1-Stage 2 factoring of a 33M. Otherwise, save some cash. You can get PC2700 and play with ram timings; the price increase is affordable but the performance increase is very small.

2.4. 1 or 2 MB PCI video card

It’s easier to use VNC Server and Viewer to control these computers, but you need to install a video card to use these. You can get these used cards for next to nothing.

2.5. Hard drives.

Get used 1 to 2 GB hard drives. If they fail you are out $10, if even. You need to really know what you are doing I f you want to do netbooting, so stick to what you know and install an OS on that harddrive.

2.6. The case

Get the cheapest case you can get your hands on. It can be butt ugly, it doesn’t matter. It can be made of very thin metal and be very flimsy, it doesn’t matter because you can’t going to be mounting more than 1 HD in there.. The only thing that does matter is that the case you use have 2 rear 80mm exhaust openings, which you will then modify by cutting out the obstructive sheet metal grills. Then install some low air volume case fans, like the Panaflos. Don’t bother with intake, exhaust is more efficient.

2.7. Power supply

Don’t skimp on this. Use the money you saved elsewhere and spend it on this.

2.8. Surge protection

At least get some surge suppression. Not much of an issue where I live since we get very few thunder storms, but then again it could happen and you could lose they entire farm!

3. Networking

3.1. Router or Switch?

Since all my computers are on all the time anyway, I don’t use a router. I use a switch and rely on Windows XP DHCP to share my ADSL connection with my farm.

3.2. Use VNC

VNC is a way to see and control another computer on your network from any other computer on your network. No need to spend money on VVMs and more cables.

[EDIT]

Egads I'm Xena!

[note to self ... kill Xyzzy with my sword]

Tasuke · 2002-08-30, 05:27

while yelling LALALALALALALALALALALALALALA!!!

Btw, you can head Xyzzy off at the pass and submit a drawing or pic.

Wish I knew that before i wore the dress.

We should start a faq thread that posts like that one can get added to. No chatter, just Q&A. Maybe a thread that only a mod could keep up. I dunno.

crash893 · 2002-09-05, 06:41

one thing you could do is make a ram disk

that way it wont try to acess the hdd every time

i also foudn that it runs slightly faster

the down side of course is if you lose power you lose till the last time you restarted youc computer

outlnder · 2002-09-23, 06:19

OK, got the monthly bill and it appears to have gone up, but, that is due to my increased usage of the AC and adding another machine.

At a guess, I think that having the hard drive and monitor power down as soon as possible, and the client only writing to disk about every 12 hours has decreased my power consumption minimally. Perhaps 2% tops.

I did notice a decrease in heat. But again, it was minimal. On hot days such as today, 2 fans with the AC running, barely kept my apartment comfortable.

Overall, I would say it is useful to power down you parts as much as possible. Running your hard drive for about 12 hours between disk writes is probably harder on your drives than letting them power down and then power back up to save. I do believe that powering down the monitor decreased my WU times. A little though, not a lot.

QuintLeo · 2002-10-04, 01:27

We have "Time Of Day" rate here - 19 hours out of the day, I pay appx. 5c per KWHr - the other 5 hours, I pay almost 15.

I go a little out of my way to keep electric usage down during those 5 hours (4PM to 9PM) - part of it I'm at work, rest of the time I just don't turn on any monitors, and don't do laundry, and such. I *will* usually have one light on part or all of that time, depending on time of year and weather.

If you really want to keep the HD power bill down, go with a "boot from LAN' option, or a small LINUX distribution like muLINUX that boots from floppy.

The latter might not be a real good idea for Prime, though, if you have power outages and no UPS, or power outages longer than your UPS can handle. Might be OK for a machine that's just doing factoring, and not LLs.

(later note) scratch the "boot from floppy" option. There is no way to fit mprime AND enough LINUX to boot from on a 1.44 floppy. It *might* be possible from a 2.88 floppy, but those are RARE - abet most current motherboards still support them.

Paulie · 2002-10-04, 17:38

I was playing with a USB compact flash reader and a 256 ultra chip. If you ran Prime95 from that and write the incremental files there, you should be able to have the HD shutdown as long as you don't go into virtual memory (if you have enough ram, turn off virtual memory if it's a dedicated Windows machine).

As a plus, you can move Prime95 around via the compact flash media to other boxes. Something cool to try would be booting off the CF itself. :)

adpowers · 2002-10-04, 18:05

If you like, you can buy a IDE -> Compact Flash adapter. This website sells them:

http://www.mydigitaldiscount.com/dis...?product_id=25

Just make sure you don't use virtual memory on the CF card, it severly shortens the life. Also, some people make Linux distros that fit on a compact flash card. However, many of these are suited for routing and may not be the best choice.

Andrew

PS: Check out the Linux Router Project (http://www.linuxrouter.org/)

2002-08-30, 02:19	#23
Albaby348 Aug 2002 2 Posts	Newbie Question How did you people learn about setting up a home farm?

2002-10-04, 17:38	#32
Paulie Aug 2002 223 Posts	Replace HD I was playing with a USB compact flash reader and a 256 ultra chip. If you ran Prime95 from that and write the incremental files there, you should be able to have the HD shutdown as long as you don't go into virtual memory (if you have enough ram, turn off virtual memory if it's a dedicated Windows machine). As a plus, you can move Prime95 around via the compact flash media to other boxes. Something cool to try would be booting off the CF itself. :)

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2002-08-30, 02:35	#24
Tasuke Aug 2002 72₁₀ Posts	Trial and a lot of error. Very rewarding in the end though.

2002-08-30, 02:41	#25
outlnder Aug 2002 2·3·53 Posts	I just built 15 machines and put them on a steel rack I purchased from KMart. They all have NICs connected to hubs and the hubs are connected to a router which is connected to the Internet via cable modem. I have an extra monitor, keyboard and mouse that I plug into each machine if something goes wrong or I need to change something. It's a bit more time consuming than VNC or NAT, but then I don't have to configure a whole bunch of IP addresses. A few things you need to remember about home farming. 1) There is an awful lot of noise. With a minimum of 2 fans per case, it gets loud. 2) Expensive, not only to build, but the monthly electric bill. Mine is over $120 each month. 3) You need extension cords from all over the house to round out the power supply. You can't put 15 machines on 2 or 3 wall sockets. You'll blow a fuse or circuit breaker. You need to spread it out over multiple fuses or breakers. 4) Upkeep. You have to babysit your machines until you are sure they can run unattended. If you build one a month, then each one would have a month's running you can watch. Operating systems are not the most stable things in the world. Some crash for no reason. Some installs don't work well, you may need to reformat and reinstall. 5) Don't use crappy parts. Even if they are free or cheap. They will always come back to haunt you. Get decent stuff that will last and won't cause computer failure. 6) Try to get identical parts. This will help if and when hard drives fail. If all the drivers are the same, then hard drive swaps are easy. 7) Power supplies must be sufficient for the hardware. Don't skimp on PSUs. Without enough power, your machines are door stops. 8) You only need one floppy and CDROM drive. Plug them in when you install, then remove when not needed anymore. Make sure you make the appropriate BIOS entries. 9) If you go with cases, leave the sides off for better cooling. Yes, this makes them louder, but the added cooling is what stops errors, especially in Prime95. Any questions, just ask. We would love to help.

2002-08-30, 02:57	#26
Tasuke Aug 2002 1001000₂ Posts	I go a different route then outlnder. I have no rack. My comps are spread about the apartment. I use a remote program to check on my comps, carrying a monitor around sucks. Lets just say that my power bill is higher. I have a really poor cooling situation in my apartment, and a rugrat. That means really large heatsinks made of copper and aluminum, with larger slower fans(ever hear a delta screamer fan?)more CFM from an 80 mm fan than you will get out of the 60mm that most heatsinks use. And I really try to over-buy my powersupplies. The better ones have high power ratings, and 2 MUCH quieter fans. And do not use a via chipset if you can. They are great for systems that are not on for days at a time. But they always seem to fail(bsod or random crash) if they are stressed for stretches.

2002-08-30, 05:09	#27
Lumly Aug 2002 Quebec, Canada 29 Posts	Here’s my take on farming for GIMPS. 1. Living situation 1.1. Where to set up? I live in an apartment with an extra room that I just didn’t use for anything so I’ve been able to convert it to my farm room. I lucked out in that this room is fed by two separate power circuits. 1.2. What to consider in terms of safety I have cats and, as anyone who has ever had a cat knows, they jump all over the place and stick their noses in everything. Thus, I have to put everything in cases and I have to keep the sides on them. This means extra cost in both cases and case fans. Also, if you have toddlers, well even more reason to close everything up so it’s safe. 2. Hardware 2.1. What CPU? If you are farming for GIMPS then you are going to buy a P4 variant, probably a northwood. Get the retail version that comes with the heatsink and fan and use them. They work great. 2.1.2. Thermal Pad? Am I nuts? No! Unless you are going to overclock using VCore adjustments then you can easily get away with just using the thermal pads the P4s come with. My systems run at the same temperature as Arctic Silvered systems, and they are overclocked using FSB only. I know I’m going to get flak from this, but you can’t argue with results. 2.2. Motherboard Even if you don’t want to overclock, get a motherboard that supports at least some overclocking options. This will let you extend the life of your computers once they start showing their age. You do not need to get one that has incremental FSB adjustments. Save some money and get a board that gives you a few settings ranging from 100 to 133. 2.3. Ram You can save some cash and get only 128 MB of PC2100 DDR. The only hindrance with a system that only has this much ram is the P1-Stage 2 factoring of a 33M. Otherwise, save some cash. You can get PC2700 and play with ram timings; the price increase is affordable but the performance increase is very small. 2.4. 1 or 2 MB PCI video card It’s easier to use VNC Server and Viewer to control these computers, but you need to install a video card to use these. You can get these used cards for next to nothing. 2.5. Hard drives. Get used 1 to 2 GB hard drives. If they fail you are out $10, if even. You need to really know what you are doing I f you want to do netbooting, so stick to what you know and install an OS on that harddrive. 2.6. The case Get the cheapest case you can get your hands on. It can be butt ugly, it doesn’t matter. It can be made of very thin metal and be very flimsy, it doesn’t matter because you can’t going to be mounting more than 1 HD in there.. The only thing that does matter is that the case you use have 2 rear 80mm exhaust openings, which you will then modify by cutting out the obstructive sheet metal grills. Then install some low air volume case fans, like the Panaflos. Don’t bother with intake, exhaust is more efficient. 2.7. Power supply Don’t skimp on this. Use the money you saved elsewhere and spend it on this. 2.8. Surge protection At least get some surge suppression. Not much of an issue where I live since we get very few thunder storms, but then again it could happen and you could lose they entire farm! 3. Networking 3.1. Router or Switch? Since all my computers are on all the time anyway, I don’t use a router. I use a switch and rely on Windows XP DHCP to share my ADSL connection with my farm. 3.2. Use VNC VNC is a way to see and control another computer on your network from any other computer on your network. No need to spend money on VVMs and more cables. [EDIT] Egads I'm Xena! [note to self ... kill Xyzzy with my sword]

2002-08-30, 05:27	#28
Tasuke Aug 2002 2³×3² Posts	while yelling LALALALALALALALALALALALALALA!!! Btw, you can head Xyzzy off at the pass and submit a drawing or pic. Wish I knew that before i wore the dress. We should start a faq thread that posts like that one can get added to. No chatter, just Q&A. Maybe a thread that only a mod could keep up. I dunno.

2002-09-05, 06:41	#29
crash893 Sep 2002 100101000₂ Posts	one thing you could do is make a ram disk that way it wont try to acess the hdd every time i also foudn that it runs slightly faster the down side of course is if you lose power you lose till the last time you restarted youc computer

2002-09-23, 06:19	#30
outlnder Aug 2002 2·3·53 Posts	OK, got the monthly bill and it appears to have gone up, but, that is due to my increased usage of the AC and adding another machine. At a guess, I think that having the hard drive and monitor power down as soon as possible, and the client only writing to disk about every 12 hours has decreased my power consumption minimally. Perhaps 2% tops. I did notice a decrease in heat. But again, it was minimal. On hot days such as today, 2 fans with the AC running, barely kept my apartment comfortable. Overall, I would say it is useful to power down you parts as much as possible. Running your hard drive for about 12 hours between disk writes is probably harder on your drives than letting them power down and then power back up to save. I do believe that powering down the monitor decreased my WU times. A little though, not a lot.

2002-10-04, 01:27	#31
QuintLeo Oct 2002 Lost in the hills of Iowa 448₁₀ Posts	We have "Time Of Day" rate here - 19 hours out of the day, I pay appx. 5c per KWHr - the other 5 hours, I pay almost 15. I go a little out of my way to keep electric usage down during those 5 hours (4PM to 9PM) - part of it I'm at work, rest of the time I just don't turn on any monitors, and don't do laundry, and such. I will usually have one light on part or all of that time, depending on time of year and weather. If you really want to keep the HD power bill down, go with a "boot from LAN' option, or a small LINUX distribution like muLINUX that boots from floppy. The latter might not be a real good idea for Prime, though, if you have power outages and no UPS, or power outages longer than your UPS can handle. Might be OK for a machine that's just doing factoring, and not LLs. (later note) scratch the "boot from floppy" option. There is no way to fit mprime AND enough LINUX to boot from on a 1.44 floppy. It might be possible from a 2.88 floppy, but those are RARE - abet most current motherboards still support them.

2002-10-04, 18:05	#33
adpowers Sep 2002 80₁₀ Posts	If you like, you can buy a IDE -> Compact Flash adapter. This website sells them: http://www.mydigitaldiscount.com/dis...?product_id=25 Just make sure you don't use virtual memory on the CF card, it severly shortens the life. Also, some people make Linux distros that fit on a compact flash card. However, many of these are suited for routing and may not be the best choice. Andrew PS: Check out the Linux Router Project (http://www.linuxrouter.org/)