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Old 2019-03-23, 21:17   #1
lukerichards
 
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"Luke Richards"
Jan 2018
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Default Tomb of debate

Can I ask that we start a polite converasation about the manner in which members of the forum speak to each other?

I'm a high school teacher, I spend what feels like half of my time trying to address issues with teenagers about the way they speak to each other when they can hide behind a screen. More often than not, put the two people in a room together and they would never address each other in that way.

It seems teenagers aren't the only ones.

There are more than just a handful of this forum who are rude and intolerant of people who know less than them. It does nothing to promote the science of mathematics. My day job is literally encouraging people to be mathematicians but I would never dream of suggesting they contribute to a forum like this.

Is it time we had some general 'Don't be rude' rules?
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Old 2019-03-23, 21:26   #2
chalsall
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"Chris Halsall"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukerichards View Post
Is it time we had some general 'Don't be rude' rules?
Are you familiar with the concept of "don't be a snowflake"?

Be comfortable with being questioned.

If you are not comfortable presenting new ideas, go back to being passive.
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Old 2019-03-23, 21:37   #3
Batalov
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukerichards View Post
Can I ask that we start a polite converasation about the manner in which members of the forum speak to each other?
Let's start with some basic etiquette exercises.

1. Is the following polite conversation acceptable in your classroom?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukerichards View Post
"Urgh this guy doesn't know sh*t, let's be rude to him about that."
2. Do you generally use the word "sh*t" in everyday conversations where you are not "hiding behind a screen"?
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Old 2019-03-23, 21:39   #4
lukerichards
 
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"Luke Richards"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Batalov View Post
Let's start with some basic etiquette exercises.

1. Is the following polite conversation acceptable in your classroom?

2. Do you generally use the word "sh*t" in everyday conversations where you are not "hiding behind a screen"?
That quote was taken out of context.
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Old 2019-03-23, 21:40   #5
lukerichards
 
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"Luke Richards"
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Furthermore, I'd like not to make any of this personal. I did not mention anyone and I would like not to single anyone out in a discussion about policy.

Please can we stick to discussing the merits of a code of conduct, or other such, rather than personally attacking the proposer or opponent of such a concept. Let's keep things civil, please. That much I would insist on in my classroom.
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Old 2019-03-23, 21:42   #6
Batalov
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukerichards View Post
That quote was taken out of context.
No, no. That is an incorrect answer. "I made a mistake" would have been a better one.

Let's see if one day ban will help to cool down this passive-aggressive attitude.
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Old 2019-03-23, 21:43   #7
Uncwilly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukerichards View Post
Is it time we had some general 'Don't be rude' rules?
Quote:
Originally Posted by chalsall View Post
Are you familiar with the concept of "don't be a snowflake"?
Posted in the soapbox are some guidelines: https://mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=19993

So, Luke, yes there are some general rules. While Chris's suggestion might be helpful for those on the receiving end, he also needs to remember the rule for those of the delivering end, "Don't be a ."

We can control our own reactions and actions. We can not dictate how others will behave (unless you are a mod.).
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Old 2019-03-23, 21:57   #8
CRGreathouse
 
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I think it's high time to have this discussion. Thank you for bringing this up, Luke.

One of my favorite things about the culture of mathematics is how it assumes good faith in others, almost to an absurd degree. When a mistake is discovered in an earlier paper, authors generally go to great lengths to find the best possible explanation for how the mistake could have come to be. When mathematicians write papers, they are generous with credit. Priority issues are so rare that when they happen at all, people remember -- no one would think the Erdos/Selberg dispute was odd in the sciences because that sort of thing happens all the time there, but in math we still talk about in 50+ years later.

I'd like to see us move in that direction. I've tried to lead by example, though I know I have my failings. We can make this a better place.

Last fiddled with by CRGreathouse on 2019-03-23 at 21:59
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Old 2019-03-23, 22:11   #9
GP2
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukerichards View Post
code of conduct
Susquehanna Hat Company!
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Old 2019-03-23, 22:24   #10
lukerichards
 
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"Luke Richards"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRGreathouse View Post
When mathematicians write papers, they are generous with credit.
Indeed - I was massively surprised to find that "Anonymous 4chan user" was given author credit on a paper on superpermutations!
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Old 2019-03-23, 22:43   #11
CRGreathouse
 
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Someone just posted (to a new user, no less):

Quote:
As a PhD candidate you shouldn't be asking such simple and stupid questions.
I submit it as further evidence of the need for a cultural shift. We can do better.
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