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 2022-01-09, 15:39 #12 Gary     "Gary Gostin" Aug 2015 Texas, USA 22·17 Posts Another used Xeon option you might consider is refurbished Dell and HP workstations. One that I like is here where you can custom configure a Z440 workstation with (for example) a 14 core E5-2690 v4 processor (AVX2) with 64 GB ECC RAM, 500GB HDD and 700W PS for about $600. The system is built, tested, and shipped free with 90 day warranty. Basically they save you the time, risk and possible frustration of integrating a bunch of parts yourself, for a small fee. Credit goes to Xyzzy's YOLO thread for pointing out these types of systems. 2022-01-09, 21:16 #13 chalsall If I May "Chris Halsall" Sep 2002 Barbados 243168 Posts Quote:  Originally Posted by Gary Credit goes to Xyzzy's YOLO thread for pointing out these types of systems. I hate to do this, but... I know having actual kit to play with is fun. But, at least personally, when taking cycle-per-dollar into the calculus, Cloud is the only way to fly. We do pay stupid coin for both CapEx and Electrons here, though, so others may have different metrics.  2022-01-09, 22:34 #14 a1call "Rashid Naimi" Oct 2015 Remote to Here/There 2×19×59 Posts Around here each baseboard consumes multiple kW’s and a good proportion of the heat is lost heating the windows and walls. I would argue that any middle of the room heawould actually save electricity. There is new trend here where Data centers are built in church basements providing free (to the church) heating. FTR, I believe my electricity consumption has gone down since I have started using electric space heaters and heat-dishes (without changing the baseboard thermostat settings). Last fiddled with by a1call on 2022-01-09 at 22:40 2022-01-10, 00:59 #15 chalsall If I May "Chris Halsall" Sep 2002 Barbados 2×3×1,741 Posts Quote:  Originally Posted by a1call I would argue that any middle of the room heawould actually save electricity. There is new trend here where Data centers are built in church basements providing free (to the church) heating. LOL... Sorry... I forgot that some actually have to create heat as part of their survival (for several months out of each year)... Our problem here is always moving heat out of one or more (relatively) closed systems. And, personally, I don't believe in cooling Humans using electrons (beyond fans). Only machines; and only then when appropriate.  2022-01-10, 10:38 #16 M344587487 "Composite as Heck" Oct 2017 19·47 Posts When looking at actual mini-PCs (most of which use soldered laptop CPU's and coolers integrated into the chassis to fit the form factor of ~120mmx120mmx50mm), it's hard to beat something based around Zen2/Zen3 which can have 8 AVX2 cores. Energy efficiency comparable to GPU's (just at much lower throughput), space efficiency is good compared to desktop/server CPU builds, but it's probably not price-efficient to rack them up (under normal circumstances, no idea about pricing or availability of anything nowadays).  2022-01-10, 15:50 #17 XZT Jul 2015 10102 Posts TinyMiniMicro I'm surprised not to find much (any?) mention on these forums yet of the 1L class corporate desktop PCs, or as ServeTheHome (STH) has coined the term TinyMiniMicro PCs. STH content on the subject: https://www.servethehome.com/tag/tinyminimicro/ STH forum discussions and references: https://forums.servethehome.com/inde...riences.30230/ In summary: Lenovo Tiny, HP Mini, and Dell Micro series of desktop PCs, generally found in corporate office environments. Possibly other OEMs (e.g. Acer Veriton N) and models (e.g. thin clients) in this Ultra Small Form Factor (USFF), NUC like size. Generally ~20cm x 20cm x 4cm, plus external power bricks. AMD (GE series) and Intel (T series) desktop, socketed CPUs. "35W" TDP, with some support for "65W" TDP CPUs, though newer models have higher peak power draw (and come with larger power bricks), and thermal throttle. SODIMM RAM. Range of IO, generally SATA 2.5" drive, M.2 PCIe for NVMe or SATA SSDs, M.2 PCIe for WiFi, some with PCIe x8 low profile options (e.g. GPU). Older models commonly available second hand, often with Windows 10 Pro tied to the motherboard. For the purposes of distributed computing like GIMPS, yeah as has been mentioned, they are almost certainly not the most cost or energy efficient, but could be interesting for space efficiency. Like up to 8 core AVX512 (i9 11900T) or upcoming 8P+8E core (i9 12900T) CPUs in a small stackable form factor - though undesirable on cost and thermal throttling. For under US$1K, it should be possible to get 16 cores worth of Skylake (or newer) i5, and maybe some extra RAM to run dual channel.
2022-01-10, 22:54   #18
Mark Rose

"/X\(‘-‘)/X\"
Jan 2013

23·32·41 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by XZT I'm surprised not to find much (any?) mention on these forums yet of the 1L class corporate desktop PCs, or as ServeTheHome (STH) has coined the term TinyMiniMicro PCs. STH content on the subject: https://www.servethehome.com/tag/tinyminimicro/ STH forum discussions and references: https://forums.servethehome.com/inde...riences.30230/ In summary: Lenovo Tiny, HP Mini, and Dell Micro series of desktop PCs, generally found in corporate office environments. Possibly other OEMs (e.g. Acer Veriton N) and models (e.g. thin clients) in this Ultra Small Form Factor (USFF), NUC like size. Generally ~20cm x 20cm x 4cm, plus external power bricks. AMD (GE series) and Intel (T series) desktop, socketed CPUs. "35W" TDP, with some support for "65W" TDP CPUs, though newer models have higher peak power draw (and come with larger power bricks), and thermal throttle. SODIMM RAM. Range of IO, generally SATA 2.5" drive, M.2 PCIe for NVMe or SATA SSDs, M.2 PCIe for WiFi, some with PCIe x8 low profile options (e.g. GPU). Older models commonly available second hand, often with Windows 10 Pro tied to the motherboard. For the purposes of distributed computing like GIMPS, yeah as has been mentioned, they are almost certainly not the most cost or energy efficient, but could be interesting for space efficiency. Like up to 8 core AVX512 (i9 11900T) or upcoming 8P+8E core (i9 12900T) CPUs in a small stackable form factor - though undesirable on cost and thermal throttling. For under US$1K, it should be possible to get 16 cores worth of Skylake (or newer) i5, and maybe some extra RAM to run dual channel. I keep eyeing those as well. But my experience with little boxes like that is that they will overheat and throttle. Right now I'd build around a i3-10100 or i3-10105, F or non-F, two sticks of DDR4-2666+ (dual rank if possible, though that's tough to find in the least expensive kits now), the cheapest motherboard, and a gold or better PSU. You can run 4 of those CPUs off a single decent PSU as long as it has two 4 pin CPU connectors (using a 3 2-way splitter off a single 4 pin got too warm for my liking). 2022-01-11, 13:26 #19 Xyzzy Aug 2002 210316 Posts Quote:  Originally Posted by Mark Rose Right now I'd build around a i3-10100 or i3-10105, F or non-F, two sticks of DDR4-2666+ (dual rank if possible, though that's tough to find in the least expensive kits now), the cheapest motherboard, and a gold or better PSU. You can run 4 of those CPUs off a single decent PSU as long as it has two 4 pin CPU connectors (using a 3 2-way splitter off a single 4 pin got too warm for my liking). If you put the same$ into a cheap system with a good GPU, which would end up being more efficient?

2022-01-11, 15:35   #20
VBCurtis

"Curtis"
Feb 2005
Riverside, CA

5,279 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Xyzzy If you put the same \$ into a cheap system with a good GPU, which would end up being more efficient?
OP mentions in post #9 that PFGW and pari-gp are the software packages to measure by, neither of which are GPU-enhanced.

2022-01-11, 15:38   #21
paulunderwood

Sep 2002
Database er0rr

100338 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by VBCurtis OP mentions in post #9 that PFGW and pari-gp are the software packages to measure by, neither of which are GPU-enhanced.
PFGW, like all GWNUM-based software, benefits from AVX2 which the Celeron chip lacks.

2022-01-11, 15:50   #22
Uncwilly
6809 > 6502

"""""""""""""""""""
Aug 2003
101×103 Posts

13·809 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by a1call I would argue that any middle of the room hea[t ]would actually save electricity.
If you are using the small PC's for heat, I would suggest that where you can, you orient the fans to blow vertically (to mix the room air.) And if you have more than 1 in a room, placing them in a chimney of some sort (instead of a case) with the MB and cards in a vertical orientation and using the harvested case fans to move the air up the chimney. A creative person could make the shaft as part of a book shelf or cabinet.

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