mersenneforum.org Engine-assisted game vs Stockfish, move 36 discussion. Drawn game?
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 2017-04-27, 04:16 #1 MooMoo2     Aug 2010 2·3·97 Posts Engine-assisted game vs Stockfish, move 36 discussion. Drawn game? The most popular move on the move 35 poll was ...Rd2. Stockfish played 36. g3, and the FEN is: 5r1k/6bp/8/1B3p2/4pP2/1P4P1/3r3P/2R2R1K b - - 0 36 Game so far: 1.e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Nc6 6. Ndb5 d6 7. Bf4 e5 8. Bg5 a6 9. Na3 b5 10. Bxf6 gxf6 11. Nd5 f5 12. c3 Bg7 13. Bd3 Be6 14. Nc2 O-O 15. O-O fxe4 16. Bxe4 Rc8 17. a4 f5 18. axb5 axb5 19. Bf3 e4 20. Be2 Kh8 21. Qd2 Be5 22. f4 Bxd5 23. Qxd5 Qb6+ 24. Kh1 Bg7 25. Rad1 b4 26. Nxb4 Nxb4 27. cxb4 Qxb4 28. b3 Rc2 29. Bc4 Qc5 30. Qe6 Bd4 31. Rc1 Rd2 32. Bd5 Qb5 33. Qxd6 Bg7 34. Bc4 Rxd6 35. Bxb5 Rd2 36. g3 Depth: 60 ply. Nodes searched: 1,566,256,298,320 (~1566 G) Stockfish is a pawn up but willing to accept a draw. Does anyone want to take it? If not, both me and Stockfish will be happy to play on Attached Thumbnails   Last fiddled with by MooMoo2 on 2017-04-27 at 04:19 Reason: node count typo
 2017-04-27, 07:33 #2 gd_barnes     May 2007 Kansas; USA 1021910 Posts A draw sounds good to me.
 2017-04-27, 16:01 #3 WMHalsdorf     Feb 2005 Bristol, CT 33·19 Posts This is the draw line, so a draw is fine with me.
 2017-04-27, 19:56 #4 richs     "Rich" Aug 2002 Benicia, California 21718 Posts Let's move on by accepting the draw.
 2017-04-28, 03:47 #5 MooMoo2     Aug 2010 2·3·97 Posts A draw it is. Thanks for playing, everyone! Here's Stockfish's analysis: Code: Move No. Depth (ply) Nodes Searched Eval Next Move Expected 1 46 604,794,005,386 0.18 e6 2 46 688,388,460,608 0.22 Nc6 3 47 984,675,908,000 0.31 cxd4 4 48 1,336,079,061,575 0.32 Nc6 5 46 804,034,774,000 0.38 Nc6 6 46 583,679,655,843 0.33 Bb4 7 51 868,975,245,726 0.31 e5 8 51 691,518,869,565 0.34 a6 9 49 538,734,199,621 0.36 Be6 10 51 2,954,025,368,677 0.25 gxf6 11 51 1,059,887,583,011 0.33 f5 12 49 1,218,382,516,080 0.33 Bg7 13 49 2,384,023,466,000 0.32 Be6 14 49 1,992,315,367,000 0.16 O-O 15 52 3,170,038,679,293 0.07 fxe4 16 50 703,385,374,994 0.11 Rc8 17 51 1,951,730,222,231 0.00 f5 18 53 707,934,602,304 0.00 axb5 19 56 2,187,604,159,550 0.00 Kh8 20 52 1,008,111,836,741 0.00 Kh8 21 51 1,033,580,272,025 0.07 Be5 22 53 1,061,117,102,247 0.00 Bxd5 23 57 917,798,447,531 0.00 Qb6+ 24 56 575,755,189,305 0.00 Bg7 25 59 2,017,940,068,015 0.00 b4 26 60 1,604,015,294,210 0.00 Nxb4 27 61 952,704,596,348 0.00 Qxb4 28 58 1,046,398,035,315 0.00 Qc5 29 58 699,065,743,522 0.00 Qc5 30 60 884,981,046,826 0.00 Bd4 31 63 2,815,167,346,378 0.00 Rd2 32 60 815,743,220,395 0.00 Qb5 33 61 1,138,146,215,505 0.00 Bg7 34 61 2,360,445,914,151 0.00 Rxd6 35 59 1,277,115,230,510 0.00 Rd2 36 60 1,566,256,298,320 0.00 Rb8 Last fiddled with by MooMoo2 on 2017-04-28 at 03:48
 2017-04-29, 13:31 #6 LaurV Romulan Interpreter     Jun 2011 Thailand 227A16 Posts Quite interesting that it clearly went for a draw at move 17, and he saw a draw at that point. We were arguing similar in the thread. This needs to be put on the board and looked to it deeper... maybe this (long) weekend (we are free for Labor Day)....
 2017-04-29, 13:37 #7 science_man_88     "Forget I exist" Jul 2009 Dumbassville 8,369 Posts Rb8 ( skewering the bishop) or Bb2 attacking the rook are the only goodish moves I see.
 2017-04-29, 13:39 #8 LaurV Romulan Interpreter     Jun 2011 Thailand 2·3·1,471 Posts That is the expected move.. (see the table). If you want to win, you have to surprize him...
2017-04-29, 13:51   #9
science_man_88

"Forget I exist"
Jul 2009
Dumbassville

8,369 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by LaurV That is the expected move.. (see the table). If you want to win, you have to surprize him...
yeah but we only have 33 moves to choose from and they only have 29 if I counted correctly so in theory there's still 33*29 = 990-33 = 957 games possible with just us making a move and them making one. most are pointless though.

2017-04-29, 17:20   #10
MooMoo2

Aug 2010

2·3·97 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by LaurV Quite interesting that it clearly went for a draw at move 17, and he saw a draw at that point. We were arguing similar in the thread. This needs to be put on the board and looked to it deeper... maybe this (long) weekend (we are free for Labor Day)....
Quote:
 I also let Komodo 10 run on this move...to 37 ply. As stated by DH1, it clearly likes 16...Rc8. The best part about Rc8 is that the analysis kept showing as trending better and better for black as the plies got deeper. At 37 ply it was at -.07. It was ranging between -.10 and -.15 between plies 30 and 35 and DH1 says it is .00 at ply 40. The question is has it already found a drawish line for the game? In other words will the analysis ever be better for us than .00 as the plies get deeper? If we are going to have a chance to win this game we will need to find moves that trend better for our side as the plies get deeper even if the moves in question are not rated as the best ones. Here the best rated move has the best trend so we have the best of both worlds. The trend is what could allow us to ultimately look deeper than is shown by the program and is one of the few things that could give humans armed with a strong engine a slight advantage over another strong engine. I now have it looking at a move 17 response by white. It is debating amongst a4, g3, and g4 after 27 ply. It is still early in the analysis. I will post the results of its look late tonight or early Sat. This is another thing that we will have to do...begin looking at responses by white before it is his turn and considering our responses to those before it is our next turn. This will ultimately give us and our engines additional time to look at each move. Let's see if we can rock the world and win with black!
Quote:
 Originally Posted by LaurV That is the expected move.. (see the table). If you want to win, you have to surprize him...
I've attached the screenshots of Move 17 and Move 36 in case anyone's interested.
Attached Thumbnails

 2017-04-29, 17:39 #11 MooMoo2     Aug 2010 24616 Posts The entire Stockfish log (for all moves) may be downloaded at: https://www.sendspace.com/file/jycr27 You'll notice that: - The move numberings are usually correct but may be off by one or two (for example, move 13 may be in the move 12 or move 14 folder). Sorry about this, but I don't have the motivation to make sure everything's in the right folder - There were occasions when I wasn't completely sure which moves the forum would make. In those cases, there'll be multiple moves in a single folder.

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