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Old 2020-09-03, 09:09   #34
frmky
 
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I moved the GNFS-191 over as a test of the new f_small queue. In the process I lowered the limits and moved sieving to the algebraic side. I didn't benchmark these changes; just felt right.
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Old 2020-09-03, 16:17   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VBCurtis View Post
I picked out a current SNFS job (from Chris2be8: https://mersenneforum.org/showpost.p...postcount=2464) to test memory use.
That job is pushing the limits of a 31 bit job on 14e. I was considering making it a 32 bit job, but then downloading the relations could easily take me nearly as long as solving the matrix.

I'll be very happy to switch to 15e_small as soon as it's open.

Chris
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Old 2020-09-03, 17:09   #36
pinhodecarlos
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frmky View Post
I moved the GNFS-191 over as a test of the new f_small queue. In the process I lowered the limits and moved sieving to the algebraic side. I didn't benchmark these changes; just felt right.
Will you link it to a new application or to the old ones. I still can’t see it on my account (NFS@Home preferences)these extra two applications.

Last fiddled with by pinhodecarlos on 2020-09-03 at 17:10
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Old 2020-09-03, 17:40   #37
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Will you link it to a new application or to the old ones. I still can’t see it on my account (NFS@Home preferences)these extra two applications.
I believe you just need to refresh/reload https://escatter11.fullerton.edu/nfs/

The new queues were visible this morning.

ETA: never mind. Ignore the above.


As to enqueuing new work, my notion is that if there’s doubt then there is no doubt (Bobby D forgive me). IOW if you’re not really sure if your job is appropriate for a given siever then likely it’s not and should be sieved by the next higher siever.

All to be verified with test sieving of course.

Last fiddled with by swellman on 2020-09-03 at 17:48
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Old 2020-09-03, 18:16   #38
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nfs@home home page shows e_small and f_small.

So, we need to work out guidelines for the queues.

d vs e_small: If test-sieving indicates 15e could be even possibly faster, send it to e_small. Some 30-bit jobs will be best on e-small. It should be somewhat normal for d to be dry, and we should resist the temptation to feed d just because it has no queue. If you'd use 31LP on 14e, you should be considering/comparing at 15e test sieve and e_small.

e_small vs e: My vote for e_small is Lim cap at 134M, Q cap at 180M (perhaps lower). That doesn't leave too much for e, but the jobs that go on e will be twice as long (or longer) than most of e_small; I don't know how much we care, anyway.

e vs f_small: Whatever is faster.

Once we reach a consensus here, I'll make a sticky with guidelines as condensed as possible.
GNFS example:
d: under 168 digits
e_small: 168 to 179 digits
e: 180 to 184 digits
f_small: 185+ digits
Where is the exact 14e vs 15e cutoff for GNFS? I'm guessing at 168.
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Old 2020-09-03, 18:23   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frmky View Post
I moved the GNFS-191 over as a test of the new f_small queue. In the process I lowered the limits and moved sieving to the algebraic side. I didn't benchmark these changes; just felt right.
Sean-
On the C191, looks like Q-range didn't get shrunk; 30-300M is likely to get you way way way oversieved from 16e. Consider taking the time to make a handful of filtering runs with varying numbers of relations, so we can learn the effects of oversieving at this size. You might get a matrix under 20M from a 16e job!
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Old 2020-09-03, 18:57   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VBCurtis View Post
Sean-
... Consider taking the time to make a handful of filtering runs with varying numbers of relations, so we can learn the effects of oversieving at this size. You might get a matrix under 20M from a 16e job!
I have a bunch of heuristic from 14d. Not sure if they will correlate with15e or 16f.

For 32-bit jobs (14d) a good starting point is around 340M unique. One can get a matrix using TD=12x. Around 360M unique a matrix can be built with TD=13x. Above 370M it will be over-sieved such that the TD build will start decreasing. I did have one job at 340M build using TD=140 but that is the exception.
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Old 2020-09-03, 19:35   #41
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Thing about data like that is that it depends so much on job difficulty. I've run 14e/32 on GNFS-164 and GNFS-174, and the number of relations needed for the two jobs were quite different- like 25% higher for 174. 340M unique is quite a lot of relations, seems like overkill for 14e jobs!

The GNFS-191 that Sean will run is specifically a size representative of the new f_small queue, and bigger jobs respond better to oversieving in the sense that matrix sizes can be cut nearly in half when compared to a number of relations that builds a "reasonable" (say, TD 100) matrix.

Last fiddled with by VBCurtis on 2020-09-03 at 19:36
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Old 2020-09-03, 19:46   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VBCurtis View Post
Sean-
On the C191, looks like Q-range didn't get shrunk; 30-300M is likely to get you way way way oversieved from 16e. Consider taking the time to make a handful of filtering runs with varying numbers of relations, so we can learn the effects of oversieving at this size. You might get a matrix under 20M from a 16e job!
I will watch it and periodically run filtering (and post the log).
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Old 2020-09-03, 19:50   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinhodecarlos View Post
Will you link it to a new application or to the old ones. I still can’t see it on my account (NFS@Home preferences)these extra two applications.
Done.
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Old 2020-09-03, 20:02   #44
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Please note I’ve queued 8p7_320 on lasievee_small. It’s a SNFS 231 quartic that isn’t suitable for lasieved but is a perfect fit for lasievee_small. It’s a 31-bit/134M/3 LP job (on the rational side).

Unless someone objects, I’ll start the sieving process on that job later this evening.

I pushed all remaining lasieved jobs into sieving - all sieving WUs should be pushed out by next weekend.

To repeat what was written earlier - please resist the urge to request jobs be added to the lasieved queue if possible. I don’t think lasieved is completely going away but jobs there should become scarce(r).
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