mersenneforum.org  

Go Back   mersenneforum.org > Extra Stuff > Soap Box

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2021-07-19, 17:32   #67
LOBES
 
Mar 2019
USA

22·17 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by xilman View Post
Do you vote in democratic elections?

If so, why?
Yes, I always do because its a right and privilege that not all people on this planet have the ability to do.

I don't think about how insignificant my "one" vote is in the grand scheme. I do it because I'm proud to be able to do so.

Last fiddled with by LOBES on 2021-07-19 at 17:32
LOBES is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2021-07-19, 17:39   #68
Uncwilly
6809 > 6502
 
Uncwilly's Avatar
 
"""""""""""""""""""
Aug 2003
101Γ—103 Posts

25·313 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LOBES View Post
Yes, I always do
But, you are not MooMoo2. We are awaiting answer from that individual.
Uncwilly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2021-07-19, 22:07   #69
LOBES
 
Mar 2019
USA

4416 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncwilly View Post
But, you are not MooMoo2. We are awaiting answer from that individual.
Oh! It must be my F-PM1 drought clouding my mind.
LOBES is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2021-07-21, 07:35   #70
xilman
Bamboozled!
 
xilman's Avatar
 
"π’‰Ίπ’ŒŒπ’‡·π’†·π’€­"
May 2003
Down not across

1095610 Posts
Default

The silence is very telling.
xilman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2021-07-21, 13:24   #71
Dr Sardonicus
 
Dr Sardonicus's Avatar
 
Feb 2017
Nowhere

500410 Posts
Default

The argument that "what I as an individual do is too insignificant to matter" is fallacious because it assumes that only direct consequences matter.

We all depend on roads and bridges as works of civil engineering for public use. Most of us, as individuals, have very little impact on them by our own individual use. But, as we all know, they deteriorate over time. One can analyze causes and aggravating factors 'til the cows come home, and that may identify bad practices which can be remedied; but that doesn't get potholes filled or structural defects repaired. As with all built things, roads and bridges require maintenance in order to keep working as intended.

However, maintenance costs money, and when it comes to procuring public money for maintaining public works, there's a problem: "Bridges don't vote."

People, however, do vote. And if they vote for politicians who promise them, in effect, that they'll never have to pay for government services, then they are voting to let our roads and bridges continue to fall to bits. There may be those who would advocate that having every street and bridge in private hands would somehow solve the problem, but I am not among them.

Air, land, and water don't vote either. Again, few of us as individuals have a large direct impact on them. But as with maintaining public works, our votes affect public policy. And public policy affects the use of our air, land, water, and other natural resources. If we vote for politicians who enact policies that promote the destruction of our common home, including policies that aggravate climate change, surely we bear responsibility for that.

With rights go responsibilities. The more important the right, the greater the responsibilities.

A number of years ago, some friends of mine, a married couple, were at an important point in their lives. The wife was not a US citizen, and was going through naturalization. I offered some help with the Citizenship Examination, by loaning my pocket Constitution, and drilling her on questions from old exams which had been provided by the immigration attorney they had hired. [She passed the exam easily, and became a US citizen.]

And there is one question from the Citizenship Exam which seems apropos here:

What is the most important right granted to U.S. citizens? The right to vote.

Last fiddled with by Dr Sardonicus on 2021-07-21 at 13:25 Reason: Omit unnecessary words!
Dr Sardonicus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2021-07-21, 15:40   #72
MooMoo2
 
MooMoo2's Avatar
 
Aug 2010

12238 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Sardonicus View Post
A number of years ago, some friends of mine, a married couple, were at an important point in their lives. The wife was not a US citizen, and was going through naturalization. I offered some help with the Citizenship Examination, by loaning my pocket Constitution, and drilling her on questions from old exams which had been provided by the immigration attorney they had hired. [She passed the exam easily, and became a US citizen.]

And there is one question from the Citizenship Exam which seems apropos here:

What is the most important right granted to U.S. citizens? The right to vote.
About 12 years ago, I also helped a friend of mine study for the citizenship test, and I definitely don't remember seeing that question or answer. It doesn't show up here either: https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/...swers/100q.pdf

Perhaps the test had changed prior to ~2009 or so.

Last fiddled with by MooMoo2 on 2021-07-21 at 15:41 Reason: formatting
MooMoo2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2021-07-21, 16:35   #73
MooMoo2
 
MooMoo2's Avatar
 
Aug 2010

12238 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Sardonicus View Post
If we vote for politicians who enact policies that promote the destruction of our common home, including policies that aggravate climate change, surely we bear responsibility for that.
Suppose that Politicians A and B support policies that would promote and aggravate climate change, while Politicians C and D support policies that are climate and environmentally friendly.

However, Politicians A and B share your views on almost every other issue (i.e., healthcare, guns, police brutality, abortion, immigration, workers' rights, etc.), while Politicians C and D don't.

Whom would you vote for?
MooMoo2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2021-07-21, 16:45   #74
retina
Undefined
 
retina's Avatar
 
"The unspeakable one"
Jun 2006
My evil lair

6,287 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MooMoo2 View Post
Suppose that Politicians A and B support policies that would promote and aggravate climate change, while Politicians C and D support policies that are climate and environmentally friendly.

However, Politicians A and B share your views on almost every other issue (i.e., healthcare, guns, police brutality, abortion, immigration, workers' rights, etc.), while Politicians C and D don't.

Whom would you vote for?
You need to change your system.

Politicians should be representing the people and their views, listening to their concerns, etc..

It shouldn't be people being asked to choose between politicians that only care about themselves and their own views. That isn't a vote, that is just silly.
retina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2021-07-21, 17:20   #75
Uncwilly
6809 > 6502
 
Uncwilly's Avatar
 
"""""""""""""""""""
Aug 2003
101Γ—103 Posts

100111001000002 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by xilman View Post
Do you vote in democratic elections?
Quote:
Originally Posted by xilman View Post
You are carefully avoiding answering my question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncwilly View Post
But, you are not MooMoo2. We are awaiting answer from that individual.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xilman View Post
The silence is very telling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MooMoo2 View Post
Suppose that
And still no answer.
Uncwilly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2021-07-23, 13:42   #76
Dr Sardonicus
 
Dr Sardonicus's Avatar
 
Feb 2017
Nowhere

10011100011002 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MooMoo2 View Post
Suppose that
<snip>
Whom would you vote for?
You have been asked, and have repeatedly been reminded and repeatedly declined to answer, a simple, real-world question about your own voting decisions:
Quote:
Originally Posted by xilman View Post
Do you vote in democratic elections?

If so, why?
I will not entertain any questions from you about voting, until you answer the question you've been asked.

And if you don't vote, I will claim that you have no standing to ask anyone else about how they might vote.
Dr Sardonicus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2021-07-23, 15:32   #77
xilman
Bamboozled!
 
xilman's Avatar
 
"π’‰Ίπ’ŒŒπ’‡·π’†·π’€­"
May 2003
Down not across

22·3·11·83 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Sardonicus View Post
You have been asked, and have repeatedly been reminded and repeatedly declined to answer, a simple, real-world question about your own voting decisions:
I will not entertain any questions from you about voting, until you answer the question you've been asked.

And if you don't vote, I will claim that you have no standing to ask anyone else about how they might vote.
Personally I believe that silence is a very telling answer.
xilman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Warming cold ∞ xilman Lounge 7 2013-01-21 20:38
Global Cooling / Climate Change Information Campaign cheesehead Soap Box 9 2012-04-14 03:12
Georgia on my mind davieddy Soap Box 5 2008-08-18 22:30
Terrorism or Global Warming Pablo the Duck Soap Box 17 2004-04-29 14:19
Who's warming? nomadicus Lounge 17 2003-08-20 08:19

All times are UTC. The time now is 13:32.


Mon Oct 25 13:32:38 UTC 2021 up 94 days, 8:01, 0 users, load averages: 0.92, 0.97, 1.03

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum has received and complied with 0 (zero) government requests for information.

Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or any later version published by the Free Software Foundation.
A copy of the license is included in the FAQ.