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Old 2020-04-28, 22:02   #1
retina
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Default Pedal power vs. motor vehicle slugfest

Quote:
Originally Posted by xilman View Post
You are proposing high tech solutions when a low tech solution is simple and fail-safe.

Convert the crossroads into a staggered junction. Motorists now have to stop ...
You almost got the REAL solution but then fell short. I agree that mtorists now have to stop. Full stop. That is the solution. Ban motorised vehicles. 100% human powered ONLY.
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Old 2020-04-28, 22:18   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retina View Post
That is the solution. Ban motorised vehicles. 100% human powered ONLY.
Riddle me this:
For work I have to go ~75 km (one way) with ~250 kg of gear and then after a few hours, return with a side trip pushing it to ~85 km. And do this within a practical work shift. How practical is your concept then?
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Old 2020-04-28, 22:42   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncwilly View Post
Riddle me this:
For work I have to go ~75 km (one way) with ~250 kg of gear and then after a few hours, return with a side trip pushing it to ~85 km. And do this within a practical work shift. How practical is your concept then?
Find a different job, or move your place of residence, or work for a different employer closer to you. There are always options. One just has to be willing instead of giving up and claiming it is not practical.

How much of that 250kg is to support vehicles and/or vehicle related things? If there were no vehicles would the task still be needed?
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Old 2020-04-28, 23:41   #4
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That is from 'office' to 'job site'. I would not be allowed to take the 250kg home. It would be the same distance, more or less. 0 of that mass is the vehicle or its items. Just saying to 'work for a different company' is dumb. The task that I do is needed in the global scale of things (the world overall would be worse if no one did this task.) There are other tasks that I do that involve traversing the same distance but with only the need for ~15 kg of "stuff".
I have been looking at something like this: https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/model/zero-ds for that, but a petrol version has the needed range at the need speed. The bosses don't want us to have that, even though it would be highly useful for some of the off-road (paved) work that I do.

Would you expect your local fire brigade to use pedal power? How about an ambulance outside of very metropolitan area?
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Old 2020-04-29, 01:10   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retina View Post
You almost got the REAL solution but then fell short. I agree that mtorists now have to stop. Full stop. That is the solution. Ban motorised vehicles. 100% human powered ONLY.
Suppose you need/want a new bicycle helmet, a part for your bicycle, or a new bicycle.

Or, suppose you need/want some computer hardware.

Please describe how you think these things could be mass-produced, and the required bits gotten to you, without the use of motor vehicles.
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Old 2020-04-29, 02:41   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Sardonicus View Post
Suppose you need/want a new bicycle helmet, a part for your bicycle, or a new bicycle.

Or, suppose you need/want some computer hardware.

Please describe how you think these things could be mass-produced, and the required bits gotten to you, without the use of motor vehicles.
Or a set of 30 foot long trusses and other materials with which to build a home.
People used to transport large or heavy items long distances with draft horses and wood wagons. That doesn't mean it's a great idea for today. A team requires acres dedicated to growing horse hay, and they need to be refueled every day and their emissions dealt with, whether they leave the stable that week or not, all year long. The sustained speed is low. A hundred acre farm had 20 acres allocated to fueling the horses.
Some useful properties of horses though, are, they have terrific peripheral vision and no vision-blocking columns when in harness, and they will try to avoid running into or stepping on someone. And sometimes they know the way home better than their driver.

I wonder what retina recommends as transportation for someone too old for bicycling, or who has an inner ear infection or vertigo. There was an extended time where without warning my vertical reference from inner ears would switch from agreement with vision, to conflict and nausea. The sensation was of the world spinning clockwise around my line of sight. I was quite conscious of using the vertical reference of standing people to maintain my orientation. A very short distance from the rim of the Grand Canyon. As a lingering result of ... a bicycling accident.

Last fiddled with by kriesel on 2020-04-29 at 02:59
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Old 2020-04-29, 03:29   #7
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Haha, okay you guys are really only making excuses instead of showing any willingness to actually do it. That's okay, I know everyone is in love with their cars and "don't take my car or I'll kill you" is a common thought for many.

But, you also appear to have gone much further than I was intending. For that one intersection, with low traffic, we can make THAT 100% human power only.

I don't want to take away your beloved cars, okay, relax. I am in favour of making separate routes (not side paths subservient to motor vehicles) for human power only. In whatever form that takes, walking, unicycle, bicycle, tricycle, roller blades, etc.
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Old 2020-04-29, 04:12   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retina View Post
That's okay, I know everyone is in love with their cars and "don't take my car or I'll kill you" is a common thought for many.
Did I say anything about cars? If I could practically take public transit to my job I would. It would take me 110 minutes to arrive by the start time. On a bike, one website tells me it would be 120 minutes. And that does not factor the large change in grade.
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Old 2020-04-29, 04:40   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncwilly View Post
Did I say anything about cars? If I could practically take public transit to my job I would. It would take me 110 minutes to arrive by the start time. On a bike, one website tells me it would be 120 minutes. And that does not factor the large change in grade.
There is nothing wrong with 120 minutes, twice a day, on a bike. Not a big deal. It just needs people to be willing to try.
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Old 2020-04-29, 12:02   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retina View Post
Haha, okay you guys are really only making excuses instead of showing any willingness to actually do it.
You're just spewing BS to avoid answering pertinent questions.

Don't want to explain how you think your computer and/or bicycle hardware might be made or shipped without motor vehicles?

Then I'm guessing you also won't want to explain how your food might be produced and shipped without motor vehicles.

The fact is, just about everything you buy and use would be impossible to produce and ship without the use of motor vehicles. If your stand against the use of motor vehicles were principled, you would refuse to consume any of it. But you don't.
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Old 2020-04-29, 12:09   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Sardonicus View Post
You're just spewing BS to avoid answering pertinent questions.

Don't want to explain how you think your computer and/or bicycle hardware might be made or shipped without motor vehicles?

Then I'm guessing you also won't want to explain how your food might be produced and shipped without motor vehicles.

The fact is, just about everything you buy and use would be impossible to produce and ship without the use of motor vehicles. If your stand against the use of motor vehicles were principled, you would refuse to consume any of it. But you don't.
If you are not willing to change the way you are living now, then of course you can't operate if something changes that forces you to change also.

For example we could all live like the Amish and eschew all technology. It is possible. But as you suggest, very few people are willing to go that far. But just because people don't want to go there doesn't mean it is impossible.

Anyhow, like I mentioned above, you can still keep your car. Don't panic just yet.
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