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Old 2020-04-08, 06:47   #551
pinhodecarlos
 
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Originally Posted by xilman View Post
I have seen comments from people with asthma who say they have been doing this for years and it helps with their condition.

Perhaps coughing is good and only those do not do it naturally need to do it as a conscious action. I don't know.
Do you know from top of your head the annual breathe test result from those people, the asthma annual review with GP? Her best was 340 on the peak flow test but I’ve seen worst, during winter season specially on cold days. Anyway, I don’t know either, one thing I’m sure is that she is now more nervous than ever trying to stay home and not going for a walk or running has made her use the inhalers more often.
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Old 2020-04-08, 08:09   #552
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Originally Posted by Dr Sardonicus View Post
Seeing as how it was from someone who had the bug, I hope you took due precautions before opening the letter
:-D
Ours arrived yesterday.

And my eyes still grow damp to remember His Majesty signed with his own rubber stamp.
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Old 2020-04-08, 08:12   #553
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Originally Posted by pinhodecarlos View Post
Do you know from top of your head the annual breathe test result from those people, the asthma annual review with GP? Her best was 340 on the peak flow test but I’ve seen worst, during winter season specially on cold days. Anyway, I don’t know either, one thing I’m sure is that she is now more nervous than ever trying to stay home and not going for a walk or running has made her use the inhalers more often.
The comments I saw were made on the YouTube channel in question.
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Old 2020-04-08, 12:15   #554
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The comments I saw were made on the YouTube channel in question.
Fair enough Paul, thank you. Hope you both are well.
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Old 2020-04-08, 16:45   #555
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Originally Posted by Dr Sardonicus View Post
I'm not sure the Darwin Award criteria were met. Although the couple who took the stuff was not named in sites I looked at, some did mention that they were in their sixties. It is therefore possible that they may have already contributed to the gene pool.
Consider the effect of extended family on descendants' chance to survive and thrive. In some situations it's the grandparents raising the kids. (Common when the parents are dead, addicts, imprisoned, etc.)
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Old 2020-04-08, 16:48   #556
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UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson hospitalized with virusIn what is surely a sign of my advanced age, this reminds me that it was a standing joke during the final years of the Soviet Union that an announcement that the Premier merely "had a cold" meant he was circling the drain.
Newsweek UK reports he is sitting up and feeling better. https://www.newsweek.com/uk-prime-mi...ng-bed-1496890
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Old 2020-04-08, 16:55   #557
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Denver doctor reports the majority of his Covid19 patients get better in a day or two upon treatment with hycroxychlroquine & zithromax. You can chart a patient and note correlation with such treatment, but that does not necessarily mean causation. Sure is interesting though.

https://denver.cbslocal.com/2020/04/06/denver-doctor-coronavirus-hydroxycholoroquine/

Last fiddled with by kriesel on 2020-04-08 at 16:56
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Old 2020-04-08, 18:39   #558
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Covid-19: Where From? Why Now? | naked capitalism -- Some interesting nuggets re. possible origins of the novel virus strain which I had not seen explored before:
Quote:
The first article linked says that some of the animal and human epidemics we have been seeing lately would have a relation with industrial farming. Indeed, farming has almost certainly been the origin of most infectious human diseases since as long as 7.000 years ago. Moreover, intensive industrial farming practices may be behind several outbursts of novel animal and human diseases as these may result in rapid amplification of diseases (3).

(Quote from ref. 3): There is a near consensus among experts that overuse of antibiotics, crowded and unsanitary livestock conditions, unnatural feed diets, and a lack of diversification are responsible for some serious global health risks.

I am OK with this and it may explain the 5 bacterial and viral diseases listed in the article. But it has been shown that H5N1 flu was originated in a family farm so it is not always a case of centralized industrial production in megafarms (4). Moreover, such megafarms are in many cases better isolated from wild sources than traditional farms and might offer less opportunities for species jumping from the wild as in SARS.

If SARS has a relationship with wild animal farming and markets, what has then this to do with farming?

The original article goes on to say that an increase in wild animal trafficking in China could be related with a sharp drop in meat production in China in 2019. An outbreak of African Swine Fever disease starting in 2018 caused a large production decrease in China during 2019 (5). Pork accounts for more than 60% of total meat production in China (broiler meat excluded). According to the National Statistics Bureau of China (NSBCh) pork meat production fell in China by 21% in 2019 with a total loss of about 11.5 million tons of meat (6). An increase in lamb and beef meat production could compensate only for a small part of this. The NSBCh does not yet provide for meat price changes in 2019 but this is a solid suggestion that wild animal trafficking could have increased partly to compensate for shortages of pork meat. At least in international markets this caused a spike in frozen pig meat (7). This looks like a solid line of research to explore.

Interestingly, I found a link that makes the opposite argument: industrial farming, and not wild animal farms are to blame (8). According to this analysis, a SADS (pig coronavirus) epidemic a few years ago in pork farms in China suggests that industrial farming and not familiar farms, are to blame.

(Quote from 8 Many of the animals on this list are industrially farmed in China, even wild animals like civets and pangolins are intensively farmed for their use in Chinese medicines. Suspicions that wild animal farms may have been behind the Covid-19 outbreak have already led the Chinese government to shut down 20,000 wild animal farms across the country.

But hardly any attention has been given to some other animals on this list, which more clearly meet the “high population density” criteria. Pigs would be one obvious candidate from this list, for several reasons. For one, pigs and humans have very similar immune systems, making it easy for viruses to cross between the two species, as happened with the Nipah virus outbreak in Malaysia in 1998… [emphasis mine]

I would argue that high density is to blame for amplification of diseases but this doesn’t say anything about the origin. As I wrote before megafarms may be better isolated from the wild than the familiar farms they defend in the article. Moreover, given the large number of wild animal farms that Chinese authorities closed, the chances of a fortuitous jump from bats, civets, racoons, pangolins etc. to humans seem greatly higher on these than on megafarms. So far, no coronavirus jump has been demonstrated from pigs to humans whereas civets were demonstrated for SARS 1.0. My opinion is that it would be a big mistake to overlook their potential role in this and possible future outbreaks.

Besides, the fact that Chinese authorities closed these farms is very telling. It is important that many mammal species are screened to find a CoV which is closest to SARS CoV 2 to prevent new outbreaks. A recent article said, on the basis of ACE2 receptor similarities, that reptiles might be discarded for search but Bovidae (cows…) or Cricetidae (rodent subgroup) should be included in the search (9), but similarities in ACE 2 do not prove much about the origin of SARS CoV 2.

I find it annoying that after a couple of months no an exhaustive work has been published on this topic. After some noises on snakes and pangolins and now Bovidae or Cricetidae we are still in the dark. Are Chinese authorities retaining information that could somehow discredit them? According to (10) [article in the Guardian, "Coronavirus closures reveals vast scale of China’s secretive wildlife farm industry"]:

Just weeks before the outbreak, China’s State Forestry and Grassland Administration (SFGA) was still actively encouraging citizens to get into farming wildlife such as civet cats – a species pinpointed as a carrier of Sars, a disease similar to Covid-19. The SFGA regulates both farming and trade in terrestrial wildlife, and quotas of wildlife products – such as pangolin scales – allowed to be used by the Chinese medicine industry.

I think The Guardian may have got it right.
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Old 2020-04-08, 19:24   #559
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So you want us to read the guardian article
https://www.theguardian.com/environm...-farm-industry

The rest of the "naked capitalism" article is saying nothing.

Last fiddled with by Till on 2020-04-08 at 19:38 Reason: improved on distinction of the 2 articles
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Old 2020-04-08, 20:38   #560
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Till View Post
So you want us to read the guardian article
https://www.theguardian.com/environm...-farm-industry

The rest of the "naked capitalism" article is saying nothing.
Don't put words in my mouth - I post in hopes some readers may find the articles/links of interest and to spur discussion. And your "is saying nothing", is itself saying nothing. If you have a specific criticism to make, by all means do so. Vague drive-by "this article sukked, dude" is for the under-10-year olds.

Here, if you need an example of a specific criticism: "I found your personal-Worldometer-obsession thread trite and somewhat ridiculous ... if you deem the source dubious, there are plenty of other such stats-aggregation sites on the Internet, pehaps you should try one of those and see if you like it better."

See how easy that was?
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Old 2020-04-08, 20:57   #561
Till
 
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Originally Posted by ewmayer View Post
Don't put words in my mouth - I post in hopes some readers may find the articles/links of interest and to spur discussion. And your "is saying nothing", is itself saying nothing. If you have a specific criticism to make, by all means do so. Vague drive-by "this article sukked, dude" is for the under-10-year olds.

Here, if you need an example of a specific criticism: "I found your personal-Worldometer-obsession thread trite and somewhat ridiculous ... if you deem the source dubious, there are plenty of other such stats-aggregation sites on the Internet, pehaps you should try one of those and see if you like it better."

See how easy that was?

Ok, keep cool ;-)
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