mersenneforum.org  

Go Back   mersenneforum.org > Extra Stuff > Soap Box

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2020-05-11, 00:28   #232
Dr Sardonicus
 
Dr Sardonicus's Avatar
 
Feb 2017
Nowhere

3·1,153 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ewmayer View Post
IIRC correctly to become a US citizen required at least 5 years of continuous residence, passing of a lengthy exam (many of whose questions most USians-by-birth would be hard-pressed to get right), answering 'no' to a slew of are-you-a-Nazi questions (even in '84, even when one's age clearly ruled out NSDP membership) and renunciation of previous citizenship.
Some years back I helped a neighbor's Canadian wife study for her citizenship exam. I loaned her my pocket Constitution, which was up-to-date with the Twenty-Seventh Amendment, and read questions from copies of previous exams which had been provided by their attorney.

I gleefully pointed out that the lawyer's information that there were twenty-six Amendments to the US Constitution was out of date.

She passed the exam easily, and became a US Citizen.

US citizenship laws have changed over the years. One of my great-aunts, though born in the US, lost her citizenship when she married a foreigner who had not yet become a citizen. The same thing happened to one of my grandparents' neighbors. In both cases, they only found out they'd lost their citizenship when they went to vote, and found they had been stricken from the rolls. IIRC they regained their citizenship when their husbands became naturalized citizens.

That reminds me. One of the questions on the citizenship exams I was reading out to my neighbor's wife was, "What is the most important right of citizenship?" She immediately gave the correct response, "The right to vote."

The Social Studies teacher in the public school I attended required all her students to pass the same Citizenship Exam given to those seeking to become naturalized citizens, in order to pass eighth grade Social Studies.

And you had to pass Social Studies in order to graduate.
Dr Sardonicus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2020-05-11, 05:34   #233
kladner
 
kladner's Avatar
 
"Kieren"
Jul 2011
In My Own Galaxy!

999110 Posts
Default

kladner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2020-05-11, 12:09   #234
R.D. Silverman
 
R.D. Silverman's Avatar
 
Nov 2003

22·5·373 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Sardonicus View Post
S
That reminds me. One of the questions on the citizenship exams I was reading out to my neighbor's wife was, "What is the most important right of citizenship?" She immediately gave the correct response, "The right to vote."

.
Says who??

The answer to the question is purely a matter of opinion. To some, the right to trial
by jury might be the most important (1). Or the right to remain silent. Or the right to
freedom of speech. I maintain that there is no single "correct" answer.

(1) Without it, think of having a Klan member as judge.......It is bad enough already in
the South.

Last fiddled with by R.D. Silverman on 2020-05-11 at 12:10
R.D. Silverman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2020-05-11, 12:26   #235
axn
 
axn's Avatar
 
Jun 2003

125516 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by R.D. Silverman View Post
To some, the right to trial
by jury might be the most important (1). Or the right to remain silent. Or the right to
freedom of speech.
Don't you get all of that even without citizenship?
axn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2020-05-11, 12:31   #236
Dr Sardonicus
 
Dr Sardonicus's Avatar
 
Feb 2017
Nowhere

3·1,153 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by R.D. Silverman View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Sardonicus View Post
S
That reminds me. One of the questions on the citizenship exams I was reading out to my neighbor's wife was, "What is the most important right of citizenship?" She immediately gave the correct response, "The right to vote."

.
Says who??
Says the folks giving the test. And who decide whether the applicant taking the test gets to become a citizen. Go argue with them.
Dr Sardonicus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2020-05-11, 12:32   #237
R.D. Silverman
 
R.D. Silverman's Avatar
 
Nov 2003

11101001001002 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by axn View Post
Don't you get all of that even without citizenship?
Ask the prisoners at Guantanomo.
R.D. Silverman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2020-05-11, 12:38   #238
R.D. Silverman
 
R.D. Silverman's Avatar
 
Nov 2003

22·5·373 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by R.D. Silverman View Post
Ask the prisoners at Guantanomo.
Note also that if you are here on a green card you can be deported without any trial
according to the whims of the INS.
R.D. Silverman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2020-05-11, 13:21   #239
garo
 
garo's Avatar
 
Aug 2002
Termonfeckin, IE

275510 Posts
Default

Bob.

Of course Dr. Sardonicus' point relates to passing the exam rather than what he actually thinks is the most important right.

And one could respond by saying Obama took upon himself the right to execute US citizens without trial so even citizenship doesn't confer that right to jury trial anymore.
garo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2020-05-11, 15:06   #240
Dr Sardonicus
 
Dr Sardonicus's Avatar
 
Feb 2017
Nowhere

3·1,153 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by garo View Post
And one could respond by saying Obama took upon himself the right to execute US citizens without trial so even citizenship doesn't confer that right to jury trial anymore.
I think referring to the killing of Abdulrahman Anwar al-Awlaki simply as "executing a US citizen" is disingenuous. He was waging war on the US, and was unlikely to submit to arrest (for treason, or perhaps some other charge) and transport back to the US. I suppose he could, in theory, have been tried in absentia. It might also be reasonably argued that he had effectively renounced his US citizenship.

And, of course, executing US citizens without trial -- often with the complicity of local law enforcement, acting as accessories or even accomplices -- is nothing new. Another quote from an article I recently mentioned over in the "This Day In History" thread:
Quote:
"I watched in horror as Martin was immediately taken from the courtroom, his hands in metal cuffs behind his back," Mrs. King recalled in her autobiography. "Martin later told me that the terrors of southern justice, wherein scores of black men were plucked from their cells and never seen again, ran through his mind."
Lynchings used to be commonplace. And the victims of lynchings often weren't even accused of any crime. They were simply "uppity" or "didn't know their place." Emmett Till is perhaps the best-known example. His murderers were acquitted by jury nullification.

Some people having the effrontery to try to get nrs registered to vote, or to secure other rights already enshrined in law, paid with their lives. Medgar Evers. James Chaney, Andrew Goodman, and Mickey Schwerner. Viola Liuzzo. How many others? God only knows.
Dr Sardonicus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2020-05-11, 15:25   #241
masser
 
masser's Avatar
 
Jul 2003
wear a mask

1,429 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Sardonicus View Post
I suppose he could, in theory, have been tried in absentia.
Yes.


Quote:
It might also be reasonably argued that he had effectively renounced his US citizenship.
No.

Quote:
And, of course, executing US citizens without trial -- often with the complicity of local law enforcement, acting as accessories or even accomplices -- is nothing new.
So what.
masser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2020-05-11, 16:14   #242
Uncwilly
6809 > 6502
 
Uncwilly's Avatar
 
"""""""""""""""""""
Aug 2003
101×103 Posts

2×4,297 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by R.D. Silverman View Post
Ask the prisoners at Guantanomo.
Sorry, but they aren't in the USA and the normal laws don't apply to them. If Cuba wanted to do something about it, they could.
Uncwilly is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
May 2020 tgan Puzzles 4 2020-06-08 09:49
January 2020 what Puzzles 21 2020-02-02 14:11
U.S. Electile Dysfunction 2018 ewmayer Soap Box 174 2019-07-08 12:50
U.S. Electile Dysfunction 2016 cheesehead Soap Box 843 2016-11-09 01:02
Assignment died of dysentery kladner GPU to 72 143 2014-01-27 00:40

All times are UTC. The time now is 12:08.

Sun Sep 20 12:08:55 UTC 2020 up 10 days, 9:19, 0 users, load averages: 2.50, 2.25, 1.91

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum has received and complied with 0 (zero) government requests for information.

Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or any later version published by the Free Software Foundation.
A copy of the license is included in the FAQ.