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Old 2020-07-27, 21:34   #67
kladner
 
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Originally Posted by Dr Sardonicus View Post
Just to be clear: I placed my response to Ernst's RIP post into the Soapbox myself. He had IMO turned the discussion of John Lewis in a political direction, and felt it best to continue it in the Soapbox rather than in RIP.

As at least two other posters have indicated in this discussion, it's one thing to state a contrary opinion (e.g. Lewis became a sellout), quite another to adopt an unnecessarily polemical, dismissive, arrogant tone (e.g. "Wrong question").
Sorry to all for the misperception.
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Old 2020-07-27, 23:00   #68
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Originally Posted by Dr Sardonicus View Post
Just to be clear: I placed my response to Ernst's RIP post into the Soapbox myself. He had IMO turned the discussion of John Lewis in a political direction
Uh, John Lewis ... was a politician. So next time someone turns the death of an entertainer in an entertainment-focused direction, shall we banish them to the Soapbox as well?

Yes, I know, apples and oranges - after all I did create the current thread myself to house such discussions. In retrospect I should've said something brief re. his later-career selling-out in the RIP thread, and linked to a lengthier detailed post in this thread. Mea culpa - I plead I-don't-like-to-make-multiple-posts-when-one-will-suffice-ness.

Re. my "wrong question" wording - you appear to have taken this entirely as a personal slight, so let me clarify - were I a pedant I would have written "In my opinion, this is the wrong question" ... since it should be obvious to any reasonable person that I was expressing an opinion, I did not think such prolixity ws needed.

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Originally Posted by kladner View Post
Sorry to all for the misperception.
You don't owe "all" an apology, just the person you falsely accused. And claiming "your arguments are weak" without giving a single example backing up said claim is ad hominem.

Last fiddled with by ewmayer on 2020-07-27 at 23:08
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Old 2020-07-28, 00:38   #69
Dr Sardonicus
 
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Originally Posted by ewmayer View Post
Re. my "wrong question" wording - you appear to have taken this entirely as a personal slight, so let me clarify - were I a pedant I would have written "In my opinion, this is the wrong question" ... since it should be obvious to any reasonable person that I was expressing an opinion, I did not think such prolixity ws needed.
Nonsense. Your opinion was that a question based on the premise that Lewis later became a sellout (provided by some commentator's op-ed) was more pertinent than my question, "Whence cometh the next John Lewis?" which referred to his confronting the State Troopers on Bloody Sunday, an act which was instrumental in getting the 1965 Voting Rights Act enacted.

In order to justify calling my question wrong you need to explain why it is not a valid question -- that is, why being willing to put one's life on the line in confronting the forces of oppression is no longer relevant to advancing the cause of social justice, and/or how the cause of social justice can be advanced, absent people willing to do so. Any reasonable person can see that you have utterly failed to do this.
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Old 2020-07-28, 03:27   #70
LaurV
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Originally Posted by S485122 View Post
Too often people admiring some person ignore or even deny his darker side.
Or maybe, they admire that person exactly for that darker side? It's a circus psychological thing...
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Old 2020-07-28, 21:36   #71
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Originally Posted by Dr Sardonicus View Post
In order to justify calling my question wrong you need to explain why it is not a valid question -- that is, why being willing to put one's life on the line in confronting the forces of oppression is no longer relevant to advancing the cause of social justice, and/or how the cause of social justice can be advanced, absent people willing to do so.
As you yourself have helped detail with multiple posts, the Voting Rights Act has been effectively gutted in the past several decades. Where was John Lewis while this was happening? Ah yes, in Congress, where he had the power and bully pulpit (especially given his hero-of-the-civil-rights-movement status) to actually *do* something about it. And now I'm done discussing this - rail all you want about "my point was more pertinent than your point!" It's called a difference of opinion - they happen, often sharply, even between people who otherwise respect each other.

Now, back to actual insult-flinging rather than differences of opinion - there are multiple reason's kladner's accusatory post was utterly uncalled for:

1. As all of those who have debated with him know, DrS is perfectly capable of speaking for himself;

2. DrS has the same mod powers I do - see that user name in bright red letters? There is no conceivable way a user of nearly 10 years does not know what that connotes. So what would be the point of me moving a post of his without his consent? He could simply move it back, and raise the issue in the Mods-only subforum.

3. Anyone who was curious as to why the post was moved, or by whom, could've PMed me or DrS to get clarification.

Kladner then followed up the above lapses in judgment with a set of gratuitous ad hominems. *That* deserves a personal apology. I'm waiting.
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Old 2020-07-29, 09:10   #72
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Originally Posted by ewmayer View Post
...
Kladner then followed up the above lapses in judgment with a set of gratuitous ad hominems. *That* deserves a personal apology. I'm waiting.
He already apologised :
Quote:
Originally Posted by kladner View Post
Sorry to all for the misperception.
Do you really need a PERSONAL apology ?

Jacob
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Old 2020-07-29, 10:12   #73
xilman
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He already apologised :Do you really need a PERSONAL apology ?

Jacob
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Old 2020-07-29, 14:28   #74
Dr Sardonicus
 
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Originally Posted by ewmayer View Post
As you yourself have helped detail with multiple posts, the Voting Rights Act has been effectively gutted in the past several decades. Where was John Lewis while this was happening? Ah yes, in Congress, where he had the power and bully pulpit (especially given his hero-of-the-civil-rights-movement status) to actually *do* something about it.
Really? What was he supposed to do? Get a law passed?

Ronald Reagan was President from 1981 until 1989. Aitch was President from 1989 until 1993. Dubya was President from 2000 until 2009.

The Republicans were the majority party in the US House of Representatives from 1995 until 2007 (104th to 109th Congress) and from 2011 to 2019 (112th to 115th Congress).

The Republicans were the majority party in the US Senate from 1995 until 2001 (104th until 106th Congress), from 2003 until 2007 (108th and 109th Congress), and from 2015 until the present (114th through 116th Congress).

So it looks to me like the only realistic opportunities to strengthen the 1965 Voting Rights Act (at least since 1980) would have been either during the first two years of Clinton's presidency, or during the first two years of Obama's presidency. The Democrats held 57 Senate seats both times, so might conceivably been able to get the 60 votes needed to stop a filibuster.

Perhaps he was supposed to campaign to have "tyrannical" federal judges impeached? As a Representative, rather than a Senator, Lewis had no say in judicial appointments. (I mention this partly for the benefit of non-US Forumites, and partly because you have, on occasion, exhibited some confusion about which institution is which.)

BTW I don't buy your pretense at being oh, so wounded by kladner mistakenly thinking you had moved my post about Lewis. In view of the fact that you had recently moved posts from RIP to this thread, his mistake is understandable.

For you to try to magnify it into some sort of grievous personal slight and demand a personal apology from someone who has manifestly declared himself officially embarrassed at his mistake, is kicking someone when they're down -- just another example in a long, long history of you assiduously striving to live down to the image of a bully in your avatar. You constantly demean anyone who happens to disagree with you (using, to cite a recent example, such shop-worn rhetorical devices as "any reasonable person" to try to imply that anyone who takes issue with you is not reasonable). But, like most bullies, you are thin-skinned. While you are busily dismissing and demeaning all who disagree with you, or who criticize your masters in Moscow or their agents and lackeys, you also demand "civility" from others.

IMO one of the most fundamental concepts in the fight for social justice is standing up to bullies. I will continue to do that in this forum. I am aware that bullies don't like people who stand up to bullies, but such is life.
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Old 2020-07-30, 20:58   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ewmayer View Post
As you yourself have helped detail with multiple posts, the Voting Rights Act has been effectively gutted in the past several decades. Where was John Lewis while this was happening? Ah yes, in Congress, where he had the power and bully pulpit (especially given his hero-of-the-civil-rights-movement status) to actually *do* something about it. And now I'm done discussing this - rail all you want about "my point was more pertinent than your point!" It's called a difference of opinion - they happen, often sharply, even between people who otherwise respect each other.

Now, back to actual insult-flinging rather than differences of opinion - there are multiple reason's kladner's accusatory post was utterly uncalled for:

1. As all of those who have debated with him know, DrS is perfectly capable of speaking for himself;

2. DrS has the same mod powers I do - see that user name in bright red letters? There is no conceivable way a user of nearly 10 years does not know what that connotes. So what would be the point of me moving a post of his without his consent? He could simply move it back, and raise the issue in the Mods-only subforum.

3. Anyone who was curious as to why the post was moved, or by whom, could've PMed me or DrS to get clarification.

Kladner then followed up the above lapses in judgment with a set of gratuitous ad hominems. *That* deserves a personal apology. I'm waiting.
Thanks for the mention, oh Infallible One. Of course, your various ad hominem attacks are really just fair and balanced evaluations of blithering idiots who don't agree with you.
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Old 2020-09-25, 20:28   #76
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Originally Posted by Uncwilly View Post
Of course xkcd 2359.
I think people have been too left column this week.
I'd rather people go out and vote early than the continuous protests over the same political issues.
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Old 2020-09-26, 12:54   #77
Dr Sardonicus
 
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Originally Posted by tuckerkao View Post
I'd rather people go out and vote early than the continuous protests over the same political issues.
I don't see what this has to do with the XKCD on "evidence of alien life," which was prompted by the discovery of phosphine in the atmosphere of Venus. There is no truth to the rumor that the "energy beams" vaporizing the UN building are actually discrete packets of energy called "boltons."

Why not vote early and continue protest social injustice? Or are you saying you just don't want to hear about existing social injustices?

I submit that, because the Admin utterly failed to deal with COVID-19, choosing instead to try to disregard it out of existence until it got out of hand, there are a lot of people needlessly out of work, who may be protesting because they don't have anything else to do.
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