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Old 2019-11-28, 13:48   #56
LaurV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick View Post
  • they should have learned
  • they haven't learned
  • they are judged to be capable of learning (belatedly)
It reminds me of the famous communist dictum, "you don't know how? we teach you; you can not? we help you; you don't want? we force you"...
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Old 2019-12-30, 16:56   #57
Dr Sardonicus
 
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Australian Jews decry Israeli health minister's appointment
Quote:
JERUSALEM (AP) — Australia's Jewish community has slammed an Israeli government decision to promote to the post of health minister a legislator who is suspected of aiding an alleged sexual abuser wanted in Australia.

The Israeli government on Sunday appointed Yaacov Litzman as health minister, sparking a litany of condemnations from Australia's staunchly pro-Israel Jewish community.

In an open letter to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Jeremy Leibler, the president of the Zionist Federation of Australia, called the decision "a slap in the face to the Australian Jewish community, the Australian people," as well as to the survivors of the alleged abuse.
<snip>
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Old 2020-01-08, 00:14   #58
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Following up on this post:

Official quits amid charges he paid women to give up babies
Quote:
PHOENIX (AP) — An elected official in metro Phoenix resigned Tuesday, months after being charged with running a human smuggling operation that paid pregnant women from the Marshall Islands to give up their babies in the U.S.

The resignation of Maricopa County Assessor Paul Petersen came after leaders in the one of the nation’s most populous counties suspended and pressured him to resign after his arrest nearly three months ago. The county’s governing board voted in late December to start the process of removing Petersen, who also works as an adoption attorney.

He is accused of illegally paying women from the Pacific island nation to come to the United States to give up their babies in at least 70 adoption cases in Arizona, Utah and Arkansas over three years. Citizens of the Marshall Islands have been prohibited from traveling to the U.S. for adoption purposes since 2003.
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Old 2020-02-11, 13:44   #59
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Philippines notifies US of intent to end major security pact
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MANILA, Philippines (AP) — The Philippines notified the United States on Tuesday it would end a major security pact allowing American forces to train in the country, in the most serious threat under President Rodrigo Duterte to their 69-year treaty alliance.
<snip>
Duterte threatened to terminate the security agreement after Washington reportedly canceled the U.S. visa of a loyal ally, Sen. Ronald dela Rosa, who was linked to human rights violations when he first enforced the president's deadly anti-drug crackdown as the national police chief in 2016.

Thousands of mostly poor suspects have been killed under the bloody campaign Duterte launched when he took office in mid-2016, alarming the U.S. and other Western governments and human rights watchdogs.

Duterte gave the U.S. a month to restore dela Rosa's visa, but U.S. officials have not publicly reacted to the Philippine leader's demand.
We should do something just to show there are no hard feelings. I suggest offering them 20 million copies each of the English and Tagalog editions of Mandarin for Beginners.
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Old 2020-07-20, 14:46   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ewmayer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Sardonicus View Post
From the AP story:Whence cometh the next John Lewis?
Wrong question. The more pertinent one is "where went the civil-rights and social-justice advocate John Lewis"?
[reply moved to the Soapbox]

I don't know who you think you are, to be telling me I asked the "wrong question," but it makes you look like an arrogant twit. I asked the question I wanted to ask.

And I would elaborate: When John Lewis stepped up and took a beating for the cause of voting rights, there were organizations such as the Southern Christian Leadership Conference (SCLC) and the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (SNCC) that worked to train people in the art of nonviolent protest, the discipline to take a beating, to be thrown in jail, or whatever else was done to you to preserve injustice without striking back.

They had definite objectives -- to secure voting rights that were guaranteed by law but were being denied in practice, and equal opportunities in housing, employment, and access to publicly accessible facilities. Where are the modern-day equivalents? It's easy to say you disapprove of the status quo, or of ideological infidels, etc. It is more difficult actually to lay down an agenda with objectives, and a program of action to achieve those objectives.

Perhaps we are seeing the organizations and characters arising in front of our eyes, as state and local officials, and people in the streets, ignore the catcalls of "anarchist" and resist the intrusion of federal oppressors.

Merely condemning people as ideologically impure or politically inadequate is easy, but it really isn't very constructive. If you wish to say John Lewis became a sellout, and his action that led to the Voting Rights Act therefore "doesn't count," you're entitled to your opinion. But it does nothing to deal with the problem of police brutality or racist attitudes in the present day.

What John Lewis and others were fighting against were unjust laws. And the Civil Rights Movement had notable success in removing the legal underpinnings of Jim Crow.

But, as the century between the end of the Civil War and the enactment of the Voting Rights Act showed, even provisions of the Constitution can be disregarded to nullity. And it is this problem we are seeing get played out by the federal government today.

There is no chance ever of treating racism or other social and political evils as a "solved problem." It is not without reason that Jefferson said "Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom."

I have been unable to find an attribution to a specific work or letter, but the following quotation is generally attributed to Nathaniel Hawthorne:

Quote:
Eager souls, mystics and revolutionaries, may propose to refashion the world in accordance with their dreams, but evil remains, and so long as it lurks in the secret places of the heart, utopia is only the shadow of a dream.

Last fiddled with by Dr Sardonicus on 2020-07-20 at 14:47 Reason: xingif topsy
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Old 2020-07-20, 15:39   #61
xilman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Sardonicus View Post
I don't know who you think you are, to be telling me I asked the "wrong question," but it makes you look like an arrogant twit. I asked the question I wanted to ask.
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Old 2020-07-21, 05:29   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Sardonicus View Post
[reply moved to the Soapbox]

I don't know who you think you are, to be telling me I asked the "wrong question," but it makes you look like an arrogant twit. I asked the question I wanted to ask.
Who am I to say "wrong question?" Ah yes, someone with an opinion on the matter, like yourself. "What happened to John Lewis?" bears directly on "Whence cometh the next John Lewis?" And those Constitution-is-a-dead-letter problems you note - once-righteous, now-totally-co-opted people like John Lewis played a key role in enabling the creeping tyranny. You want to engage in hagiographical eulogization, fine. You do not have the right to do so uncontestedly. If my asserting *my* same rights to express an opinion on the matter makes me an "arrogant twit", then the problem is yours. You do not possess a monopoly on either truth or opinion.
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Old 2020-07-21, 08:33   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ewmayer View Post
Who am I to say "wrong question?" Ah yes, someone with an opinion on the matter, like yourself. "What happened to John Lewis?" bears directly on "Whence cometh the next John Lewis?" And those Constitution-is-a-dead-letter problems you note - once-righteous, now-totally-co-opted people like John Lewis played a key role in enabling the creeping tyranny. You want to engage in hagiographical eulogization, fine. You do not have the right to do so uncontestedly. If my asserting *my* same rights to express an opinion on the matter makes me an "arrogant twit", then the problem is yours. You do not possess a monopoly on either truth or opinion.
My comment on this dispute will be twofold :
- the tone of the debate between some forum members is often too polemical, needlessly aggressive and personal. It distracts from the exchange of ideas.
- then, even in eulogies, one should consider the acts, speeches, writings and thoughts on their merits individually. John Lewis for instance did a lot of things in his life, the good should be remembered and cited, but this should not exempt him from critics about the not so good things. Too often people admiring some person ignore or even deny his darker side. The converse is obviously also true. I thus agree with the question "where went the civil-rights and social-justice advocate John Lewis ?"

Jacob
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Old 2020-07-22, 18:36   #64
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Thanks for your words, Jacob. I'll try to heed them. I hope others do, too.
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Old 2020-07-22, 18:39   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ewmayer View Post
Who am I to say "wrong question?" Ah yes, someone with an opinion on the matter, like yourself. "What happened to John Lewis?" bears directly on "Whence cometh the next John Lewis?" And those Constitution-is-a-dead-letter problems you note - once-righteous, now-totally-co-opted people like John Lewis played a key role in enabling the creeping tyranny. You want to engage in hagiographical eulogization, fine. You do not have the right to do so uncontestedly. If my asserting *my* same rights to express an opinion on the matter makes me an "arrogant twit", then the problem is yours. You do not possess a monopoly on either truth or opinion.
It's fine to have differences of opinion. Using Mod powers to banish those who dissent from your views is underhanded and unfair. It shows how weak you feel your arguments are.

"You do not possess a monopoly on either truth or opinion."

Last fiddled with by kladner on 2020-07-22 at 18:39
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Old 2020-07-27, 11:35   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kladner View Post
It's fine to have differences of opinion. Using Mod powers to banish those who dissent from your views is underhanded and unfair. It shows how weak you feel your arguments are.

"You do not possess a monopoly on either truth or opinion."
Just to be clear: I placed my response to Ernst's RIP post into the Soapbox myself. He had IMO turned the discussion of John Lewis in a political direction, and felt it best to continue it in the Soapbox rather than in RIP.

As at least two other posters have indicated in this discussion, it's one thing to state a contrary opinion (e.g. Lewis became a sellout), quite another to adopt an unnecessarily polemical, dismissive, arrogant tone (e.g. "Wrong question").
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