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Old 2019-10-08, 18:27   #1
aurashift
 
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Default Trust but Verify discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncwilly View Post
just saying "доверяй, но проверяй" (doveryay, no proveryay) ["Trust, but verify"].

Apparently the meaning behind the Russian saying is just "don't trust".
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Old 2019-10-08, 21:36   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aurashift View Post
Apparently the meaning behind the Russian saying is just "don't trust".
Wikipedia sees it differently: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trust,_but_verify
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Old 2019-10-09, 01:34   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncwilly View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ebah_QdBnI&t=1m19s

Last fiddled with by ATH on 2019-10-09 at 01:36
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Old 2019-10-09, 01:54   #4
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In Russian, "trusting" and "gullible" are the same word.

Trust me on this.
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Old 2019-10-09, 13:10   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncwilly View Post
Are the DC's on the same exponents as the LL?
Not suggesting that there is anything untoward going on, just saying "доверяй, но проверяй" (doveryay, no proveryay) ["Trust, but verify"].
It says here that
Quote:
The ultimate guide into Russian proverbs compiled and published by famous lexicographer Vladimir Dal’ in 1879 does not include this proverb. It means “trust, but verify” had to have ‘popped’ up only in the last years of the 19th or early 20th century.

Vladimir Lenin voiced a version of the idea (although not as elegantly) in his 1914 speech: “Do not take their word for it, check it strictly - this is the slogan of the Marxist workers!”

Joseph Stalin repeated Lenin’s idea years later: “A healthy distrust is a good basis for working together.”

The Soviet film Big life from 1939 has the proverb word for word, yet it’s not clear if the film is the original source of Reagan’s favourite cliché. In other words, the ‘verification’ of the phrase continues...
I question the Stalin quote. From what I've heard and read about him, his distrust of others was anything but healthy. Especially for them...
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Old 2019-10-09, 14:20   #6
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MOD NOTE: The above posts were split off from this thread: https://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=24819
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Old 2019-10-09, 15:10   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Sardonicus View Post
The ultimate guide into Russian proverbs compiled and published by famous lexicographer Vladimir Dal’ in 1879 does not include this proverb.
Maybe it's too prosaic to be a "real" proverb. It's merely saying "don't just take someone's word for it." There's no metaphor or parable, and the only wordplay is the fact that it rhymes (in the original).

Think of a comparable rhyming phrase in English, for instance, "Try before you buy." You probably won't find that in some compilation of proverbs because it's not really worth including. Instead you'll find proverbs like "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush", and so on.
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Old 2019-10-09, 15:23   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GP2 View Post
Instead you'll find proverbs like "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush", and so on.
A variant is: when it comes to a push, a bird in a bush is worth two in the hand.

That version may not be familiar to non-English (such as American) speakers. Perhaps this post ought to be in the Dumb Jokes thread, and Uncwilly should look away now.

Last fiddled with by xilman on 2019-10-09 at 15:23
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Old 2019-10-10, 06:14   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GP2 View Post
Instead you'll find proverbs like "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush", and so on.
Лучше синица в руках, чем журавль в небе.
Unfortunately, in English синица is the Eurasian blue tit, so the fast translation "a tit in the hand is worth two..." does not sound quite as what was intended.
Quote:
In Russian, "trusting" and "gullible" are the same word.
Indeed!
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Old 2019-10-10, 19:38   #10
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@Serge: BBC online used to have a set of "Wildfacts" pages about wildlife in Britain. Their entry for the Great Tit, Parus Major, included a hilarious deadpan in the "threatened status" section, to effect of "Great Tits are not considered threatened. There are estimated to be [some number of millions] of pairs in Great Britain."

(Aside: On first spotting the thread title I read it as "Tryst but Verify". IIRC that was a subplot of the film The Crying Game.)
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Old 2019-10-10, 20:02   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Batalov View Post
Лучше синица в руках, чем журавль в небе.
Unfortunately, in English синица is the Eurasian blue tit, so the fast translation "a tit in the hand is worth two..." does not sound quite as what was intended.

Indeed!
As I observed earlier, great tits like coconuts ...
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