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Old 2019-04-01, 01:04   #12
Xyzzy
 
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We always wondered why the wiki database was over 500 megabytes!

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Old 2019-04-03, 02:00   #13
sweety439
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kar_bon View Post
All of those tables where much too long.

For example there was a table for Williams primes with 8 different kinds of numbers in one table.

- unreadable
- editing is a horror (finding the right entries)
- (almost) no test limits given

Having in mind that every edit of such page (only one character is enough) will save the whole page again in the database and you edited such pages more than once (example: 2018-04-02 from 05:07 to 05:45 30 times! in 40 mins) is not acceptable anymore.
Your biggest page (Pseudoprimes of 5 different forms in one table with colors) was 3MB in size, the biggest page I've ever seen in a Wiki!
Every edit will save 3MB of text in the database! The SQL dump of the whole Wiki is only 16MB in text format! At least that page could not be edited because the browser/wiki software was unable to handle this.

Big data collections are not allowed as pure wiki pages, but only in file format like attachments as given on the example page or at the Cunningham project page.

I've not yet tried it for those overloaded pages because I have to evaluate first how this can be handled and find the best to keep the database fine and to keep it simple for users to edit in an easy way.

So templates have to be generated first like for the Riesel or PDF with acceptable and reliable data for storing.has to be generated.

You were blocked on OEIS and Wikipedia because of those big tables in mass with not verifyable data and restoring your deleted edits in several times.

I will not allow such behavior in this wiki and if I got time to include those pages again (in a different way) you will see them.
Besides, in the Williams prime page https://www.rieselprime.de/ziki/Williams_prime, you only include the 1st kind (b-1)*b^n-1, not include the other seven kinds of Williams primes (the 5th-8th kinds are the dual of the 1st-4th kinds).

The dual of Proth prime k*2^n+1 is 2^n+k, for odd k. (there is no prime for k=78557 with both forms)

The dual of Riesel prime k*2^n-1 is |2^n-k|, for odd k. (there is no prime for k=509203 with both forms)

Last fiddled with by sweety439 on 2019-04-03 at 02:02
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Old 2019-04-03, 09:08   #14
kar_bon
 
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The terminology "Williams prime" is only defined/named after the paper by H.C.Williams with primes of the form (b-1)*b^n-1.

So other kinds of similiar formed numbers are not "Williams".

You created the Williams prime page on Mersennewiki on 2018-03-30 and extended it until 2018-07-01. A month later Mersennewiki was shut down.
On 2018-10-01 you created such page at Wikipedia and looking the history we see the same manner: editing war.
And again:
- no search limits given
- phrases like "It is conjectured..." Who did? Where find sources?
- only reference: the page of S.Harvey (only original Williams primes list)
- the last ext. link is your own data file!

Alll that data is your own research and this is against Wikipedia rules, and I don't know why the other 7 kinds of your Williams primes and data are still remain there.
Citation:
Code:
If no reliable independent sources can be found on a topic, Wikipedia should not have an article about it. If you discover something new, Wikipedia is not the place to announce such a discovery.
"Reliable sources" are explained on that page, too.

About "Xayahrainie":
"Xayah" and "Rainie" are characters of the game "League of Legends", the same as your pages in Mersennewiki for "Nexus" and "Ahri" primes!
Giving such names by your own is not acceptable. Even "Carol/Kynea" is not officially registered but adopted on many pages, even C.Caldwells Top5000 list only accept the phrase "Near-square".

So if such forms of numbers will be listed on the PrimeWiki they are not called Williams primes but "more likely" or "similiar".
And the only source is giving your name in real as like S.Harvey or my name in the wiki.
Another topic is the specification of a search range (and not only to n=1000): others can continue the search only if they know where to begin.
So instead of giving thousands of small values search a base to a higher n-range and then continue on a next base.
Concentrate on a few topics and not on hundreds as in your "xddd" thread in the "Blogorrhea", and no: I will also do not accept any lists of numbers in duodecimal.

Last fiddled with by kar_bon on 2019-04-18 at 14:40 Reason: typos
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Old 2019-04-05, 12:16   #15
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Made some big advances in using and displaying Carol/Kynea primes:

- the lists for a power-of base are generated automatically on the base-page using data from to parents-base (for example base 8 is using the data from base 2)
- all lists are now visible and correct in the table page
- a new category for "power-of" created
- links to Top5000 ID if available are given on the base page using the same technique/template as for Riesel primes
- automatically generates a page title instead showing the wiki-internal

Some small edits could be still done
- categorizing with sorting can be automated, too
- same for the sub-category emtries
Both done: sorting by base in all categories.

I think the next topic are the original Williams primes (b-1)*b^n-1 building templates and pages/table for some bases as example.

PS:
The page with the generated table is ~850 bytes in size, not that much but as a normal page with a table to edit:
- the table only in text mode is ~2000 bytes in size for now
- every edit would save that page with additional base-entries, so this page would grow
- the bigger the table the harder to edit it -> confusingly

Now:
- all data getting from the special base-page
- -no- edits of the table needed

So creating a new base page with the template-data for a base and the table page will show the new data.

Last fiddled with by kar_bon on 2019-04-06 at 23:23 Reason: sorting in categories done by template
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Old 2019-04-12, 22:51   #16
kar_bon
 
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Default Williams primes

The first attempts for Williams primes (and similiar types) are done.

The Category is shown like a portal page, perhaps this should be done on the main page later.

There're four types of Williams primes, internally differentiated by a two char coding representing the signs in the formulas (b±1)*b^n±1.
So the original Williams prime of the form (b-1)*b^n-1 are named "MM" (1st sign minus, 2nd sign minus). From this internal namings the displayed titles and the categorizations are derived.
My last search for 4*5^n-1 can be found here containing the history, external links and the Top5000 IDs in the list.

The next thing to do is to create a template to use existing data.
The basic primes should be Riesel (k*2^n-1) and Proth (k*2^n+1) types, so creating a page for the type "Williams prime PM 2" which is "(2+1)*2^n-1" or the same as "Riesel prime 3", the data from the page of the Riesel should be read and displayed on Williams page to avoid double edits.
The same for Williams 3*4^n-1 with different exponents from 3*2^n-1.
Done!

Special categories for bases without any primes found yet and a table to display all data like the Carol/Kynea primes have to be done, too.

Update:
- bases 2 to 32 are available.
- table created

ToDo:
- reusing from other types (not Riesel/Proth): example: 8*9^n-1 should use 8*3^n-1

Last fiddled with by kar_bon on 2019-04-18 at 14:38 Reason: update
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Old 2019-04-19, 01:59   #17
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The template to support Proth primes (k*2n+1) is created., next to do fill some pages with data and the table as for Riesel.

- Category for Proth primes with special subcategories like for Riesel primes
- Overview as table

More to come:
- generalized Woodall/Cullen primes

Last fiddled with by kar_bon on 2019-04-19 at 16:07 Reason: links to cat.& table
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Old 2019-04-20, 03:48   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kar_bon View Post
The first attempts for Williams primes (and similiar types) are done.

The Category is shown like a portal page, perhaps this should be done on the main page later.

There're four types of Williams primes, internally differentiated by a two char coding representing the signs in the formulas (b±1)*b^n±1.
So the original Williams prime of the form (b-1)*b^n-1 are named "MM" (1st sign minus, 2nd sign minus). From this internal namings the displayed titles and the categorizations are derived.
My last search for 4*5^n-1 can be found here containing the history, external links and the Top5000 IDs in the list.

The next thing to do is to create a template to use existing data.
The basic primes should be Riesel (k*2^n-1) and Proth (k*2^n+1) types, so creating a page for the type "Williams prime PM 2" which is "(2+1)*2^n-1" or the same as "Riesel prime 3", the data from the page of the Riesel should be read and displayed on Williams page to avoid double edits.
The same for Williams 3*4^n-1 with different exponents from 3*2^n-1.
Done!

Special categories for bases without any primes found yet and a table to display all data like the Carol/Kynea primes have to be done, too.

Update:
- bases 2 to 32 are available.
- table created

ToDo:
- reusing from other types (not Riesel/Proth): example: 8*9^n-1 should use 8*3^n-1
Well, see the page https://docs.google.com/document/u/1...hdSWWWOojQ/pub, I have searched all 8 kinds of (dual) "Williams primes" for all bases b<=64 to n=3284.
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Old 2019-04-20, 03:55   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kar_bon View Post
The template to support Proth primes (k*2n+1) is created., next to do fill some pages with data and the table as for Riesel.

- Category for Proth primes with special subcategories like for Riesel primes
- Overview as table

More to come:
- generalized Woodall/Cullen primes
Besides, for "generalized Woodall/Cullen primes", do you require n>=b-1? I think you can list all known n such that n*b^n+-1 is prime.
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Old 2019-04-21, 04:26   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kar_bon View Post
The template to support Proth primes (k*2n+1) is created., next to do fill some pages with data and the table as for Riesel.

- Category for Proth primes with special subcategories like for Riesel primes
- Overview as table

More to come:
- generalized Woodall/Cullen primes
Also "Proth dual" (2^n+k) and "Riesel dual" (|2^n-k|)

with fixed positive odd integer k

Last fiddled with by sweety439 on 2019-04-21 at 04:27
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Old 2019-04-21, 05:32   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kar_bon View Post
About "Xayahrainie":
"Xayah" and "Rainie" are characters of the game "League of Legends", the same as your pages in Mersennewiki for "Nexus" and "Ahri" primes!
Giving such names by your own is not acceptable. Even "Carol/Kynea" is not officially registered but adopted on many pages, even C.Caldwells Top5000 list only accept the phrase "Near-square".

So if such forms of numbers will be listed on the PrimeWiki they are not called Williams primes but "more likely" or "similiar".
And the only source is giving your name in real as like S.Harvey or my name in the wiki.
Possibly relevant, useful, and/or interesting: my page on the OEIS Wiki about examples and non-examples of pages named by their discoverers. (It turns out the OEIS has been pretty good about sticking to their own rules against people naming their own sequences after themselves.)
https://oeis.org/wiki/User:Charles_R...ouse_IV/Vanity

I should note that this was written entirely in my private capacity and does not represent the opinion of the OEIS Foundation.
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Old 2019-04-21, 10:42   #22
kar_bon
 
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Thanks for the link.

The naming of special numbers is surely an issue and I try to explain these in the Wiki.
I know using "Riesel prime" for primes of the form "k*b^n-1" is not the best way but it's used over years not only in this forum.
C.Caldwell is also using only a few named numbers in official.

On the other hand it's easier to name a wiki-page "Williams prime" instead of "(b-1)*b^n-1", also the search/find handling makes it more readable.

The Prime-Wiki is still in contruction mode instead of real professional use but if you got any suggestions to handle those namings different/better, I appreciate you motivation.
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