White 20 - Page 3

WMHalsdorf · 2014-02-12, 20:06

[QUOTE=LaurV;366761]20..bxc here, would not be verrrry brilliant from their side. We can ignore it, we are not forced to capture immediately: 21.Nd6 Kd7 22.Nxc3 Nf5 Nc3e4, they can not push nor take because the mate may be close there, ex: c3 24.Nc5 K somewhere, Nxa6, bad for black.[/QUOTE]

Overlooked 22. Nxc3
It seems we win any any reply.

cheesehead · 2014-02-13, 08:04

[QUOTE=LaurV;366757]What the hack we reply to 20...Kf8 ?[/QUOTE]If the Black king thinks he's skeet shooting, and our R/f1 is a big skeet, he's got things reversed!

Even before any reply, he's buried his king-side rook, which may be a fine defender but won't be joining his queen-side attack anytime soon...

[quote]I squeezed my brain for one hour, I actually don't have a good reply to this.[/quote]Most of our previous ideas based on threat of a d7 knight-fork or threat to capture on f7 would still be valid!!

21 Nf6 threatens 22 Nd7+. 21 ... Rb7 would self-pin his N/c6. 21 ... Rd8 would take pressure off the b-file.

21 Nd6 would force Black to marginalize a knight with 21 ... Nd8. Our d-file back-rank knight may be an excellent defender, but Black's d-file back-rank knight wouldn't have the same prospect.

21 Nc5 would be a fine outpost with multiple benefits:

a) It would force either:
a1) 21 ... Bc8, letting us take the c4-pawn after Bd2-Ne3 or Rf2-Bf1, or
a2) 21 ... Ra8. Then after 22 Nxa6 Rxa6 we'd have the same Bd2-Ne3 and Rf2-Bf1 threats to take the c4-pawn.

b) It would deter 23 ... Rb3 after ... bxc3, bxc3.

c) The possible follow-up Nf2-Ne4-Nd6 would make a dynamite formation of knights inhibiting all sorts of Black plans.

[quote]It is making our 20 Ne4 completely uneffective :([/quote]Nonsense!

[quote](i mean, we still have the queen side attack, c5, d6, but only little of the initial dream...)[/quote]The initial dream depended on Black's not being able to adequately defend both f7 and h6. Kf8 may accomplish that defense, but has delicious disadvantages for us to exploit in a slightly amended dream. :-)

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2014-02-12, 20:06	#23
WMHalsdorf Feb 2005 Bristol, CT 3³×19 Posts	[QUOTE=LaurV;366761]20..bxc here, would not be verrrry brilliant from their side. We can ignore it, we are not forced to capture immediately: 21.Nd6 Kd7 22.Nxc3 Nf5 Nc3e4, they can not push nor take because the mate may be close there, ex: c3 24.Nc5 K somewhere, Nxa6, bad for black.[/QUOTE] Overlooked 22. Nxc3 It seems we win any any reply.

2014-02-13, 08:04	#24
cheesehead "Richard B. Woods" Aug 2002 Wisconsin USA 7692₁₀ Posts	[QUOTE=LaurV;366757]What the hack we reply to 20...Kf8 ?[/QUOTE]If the Black king thinks he's skeet shooting, and our R/f1 is a big skeet, he's got things reversed! Even before any reply, he's buried his king-side rook, which may be a fine defender but won't be joining his queen-side attack anytime soon... [quote]I squeezed my brain for one hour, I actually don't have a good reply to this.[/quote]Most of our previous ideas based on threat of a d7 knight-fork or threat to capture on f7 would still be valid!! 21 Nf6 threatens 22 Nd7+. 21 ... Rb7 would self-pin his N/c6. 21 ... Rd8 would take pressure off the b-file. 21 Nd6 would force Black to marginalize a knight with 21 ... Nd8. Our d-file back-rank knight may be an excellent defender, but Black's d-file back-rank knight wouldn't have the same prospect. 21 Nc5 would be a fine outpost with multiple benefits: a) It would force either: a1) 21 ... Bc8, letting us take the c4-pawn after Bd2-Ne3 or Rf2-Bf1, or a2) 21 ... Ra8. Then after 22 Nxa6 Rxa6 we'd have the same Bd2-Ne3 and Rf2-Bf1 threats to take the c4-pawn. b) It would deter 23 ... Rb3 after ... bxc3, bxc3. c) The possible follow-up Nf2-Ne4-Nd6 would make a dynamite formation of knights inhibiting all sorts of Black plans. [quote]It is making our 20 Ne4 completely uneffective :([/quote]Nonsense! [quote](i mean, we still have the queen side attack, c5, d6, but only little of the initial dream...)[/quote]The initial dream depended on Black's not being able to adequately defend both f7 and h6. Kf8 may accomplish that defense, but has delicious disadvantages for us to exploit in a slightly amended dream. :-)