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 2012-06-15, 23:18 #1 Sab     Jul 2009 19 Posts Meta Tic Tac Toe Hey all, its been a long time. I've been playing this game called Meta Tic Tac Toe. It was invented sometime in the 70's I think. Basically for each square there is an entire normal Tic Tac Toe board. Once a player wins a smaller board they get a big X or O for the whole board. X starts making one small mark. Then O makes 2 marks wherever and X follows with 2 marks of his own etc. This game has way more strategy than normal Tic Tac Toe and I don't think it is "solved" yet. I am going to be programming both the game and some basic AI using C++ as an exercise before I start more major projects. Has anyone else heard of this game before? I know someone wrote about it but I can't find the paper/book anymore on google... Give it a try if you are bored :D
 2012-06-15, 23:42 #2 Batalov     "Serge" Mar 2008 Phi(4,2^7658614+1)/2 925710 Posts A good one. How many levels of embedding? Just one (like a 9x9 sudoku board)? If the rules were fractal, then it would like something like this? :-/
2012-06-16, 00:00   #3
science_man_88

"Forget I exist"
Jul 2009
Dumbassville

26×131 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Sab Hey all, its been a long time. I've been playing this game called Meta Tic Tac Toe. It was invented sometime in the 70's I think. Basically for each square there is an entire normal Tic Tac Toe board. Once a player wins a smaller board they get a big X or O for the whole board. X starts making one small mark. Then O makes 2 marks wherever and X follows with 2 marks of his own etc. This game has way more strategy than normal Tic Tac Toe and I don't think it is "solved" yet. I am going to be programming both the game and some basic AI using C++ as an exercise before I start more major projects. Has anyone else heard of this game before? I know someone wrote about it but I can't find the paper/book anymore on google... Give it a try if you are bored :D
I looked it up and only 6 results in Google with that phrase in the title all asking for info. in pari a 3 by 3 matrix of 3 by 3 matrices I believe is:

Code:
matrix(3,3,x,y,matrix(3,3))
using the alternate name I found in the answers I found a working version online:http://www.stratigery.com/9board/gen9.php and I won once yay

Last fiddled with by science_man_88 on 2012-06-16 at 00:25

2012-06-16, 00:33   #4
Sab

Jul 2009

19 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Batalov A good one. How many levels of embedding? Just one (like a 9x9 sudoku board)? If the rules were fractal, then it would like something like this? :-/
It looks like a 9x9 sudoku board but with thicker main lines to designate the big board.

You could probably expand it to 3,4, n... layers of depth but considering not very many people know about the 2 layered version its probably good enough to play this one...

@ Science Man

Its not the same rules of 9 board. In Meta Tic Tac Toe after the first turn, both players make their marks anywhere assuming the smaller board is not already won.

I've played several games with my friends and so far there have been no ties. Interesting...

2012-06-16, 00:55   #5
science_man_88

"Forget I exist"
Jul 2009
Dumbassville

203008 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Sab It looks like a 9x9 sudoku board but with thicker main lines to designate the big board. You could probably expand it to 3,4, n... layers of depth but considering not very many people know about the 2 layered version its probably good enough to play this one... @ Science Man Its not the same rules of 9 board. In Meta Tic Tac Toe after the first turn, both players make their marks anywhere assuming the smaller board is not already won. I've played several games with my friends and so far there have been no ties. Interesting...
okay sorry it's just that that's the closest thing I found to what you described. so marks are made on any board in any order so it's like you are playing 9 games at a time ? really the only difference I seem to have in mind between that and nine board is that the version of nine board I linked to forces you onto a specific board dependent on your opponent's play, oh and the game ends when you win one board.

Last fiddled with by science_man_88 on 2012-06-16 at 01:04

 2012-06-16, 01:34 #6 Dubslow Basketry That Evening!     "Bunslow the Bold" Jun 2011 40
 2012-06-16, 01:42 #7 Dubslow Basketry That Evening!     "Bunslow the Bold" Jun 2011 40
 2012-06-16, 01:52 #8 petrw1 1976 Toyota Corona years forever!     "Wayne" Nov 2006 Saskatchewan, Canada 2·3·5·151 Posts We played 4X4X4 in University in the late 70's. We even played against a computer opponent....but never won.
2012-06-16, 07:33   #9
xilman
Bamboozled!

"𒉺𒌌𒇷𒆷𒀭"
May 2003
Down not across

28·41 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by petrw1 We played 4X4X4 in University in the late 70's. We even played against a computer opponent....but never won.
I've [played 4x4x4 many times in the early 80s, occasionally against human opponents but usually against machines. A friend of mine, Steve Thomas, wrote a program in Z80 assembler which was blindingly fast and rather good at the game. (Steve also wrote a much stronger but slower version in BCPL.) He and I were the only people to take it on with any degree of success. The problem for most opponents wasn't the strength of its play per se but its speed. With sub-second responses at all times, human players seemed compelled to respond much more quickly than necessary and so made silly mistakes.

Somewhere I've a physical 4x4x4 board, though I'm not entirely sure where. It consists of four layers of transparent plastic mounted on pillars at the corners. Each layer contains a 4x4 grid of holes, into which a coloured marble may be placed.

2012-06-16, 08:01   #10
rcv

Dec 2011

2178 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by xilman I've [played 4x4x4 many times in the early 80s, occasionally against human opponents but usually against machines. A friend of mine, Steve Thomas, wrote a program in Z80 assembler which was blindingly fast and rather good at the game. (Steve also wrote a much stronger but slower version in BCPL.) He and I were the only people to take it on with any degree of success. The problem for most opponents wasn't the strength of its play per se but its speed. With sub-second responses at all times, human players seemed compelled to respond much more quickly than necessary and so made silly mistakes. Somewhere I've a physical 4x4x4 board, though I'm not entirely sure where. It consists of four layers of transparent plastic mounted on pillars at the corners. Each layer contains a 4x4 grid of holes, into which a coloured marble may be placed.
Small world, isn't it. I had a homemade (Plexiglas) 3D tic-tac-toe board. Used colored plastic disks from a toy construction kit for the game pieces. Cells were numbered "111" through "444" with Dymo Label Tape. In the 70's, somebody sold a commercial game, called "Cubit", I think.

"Programming the IBM 1130 and 1800" by Robert K Louden contains a Fortran implementation of 3D tic-tac-toe. [I don't recall which Edition, if that matters.] My college had an IBM 1620, which had a binary 3D tic-tac-toe program. Functionally, it played identically to the Fortran program I mention. It was very good for computer demonstrations at "open house", but somebody who was good at games could easily beat it.

I wrote an IBM 360/370 Assembler 3D tic-tac-toe game, which looked far ahead. It was available on our timesharing system. In the five or so years after I wrote the program, only one person besides myself could consistently beat it.

I think I have heard that the game has been "solved". But I don't have a reference.

@OP: I haven't heard of your game. You might find the referenced Fortran program of interest, but I don't think anybody would program a game in the same manner, today.

Last fiddled with by rcv on 2012-06-16 at 08:32

2012-06-16, 09:27   #11
xilman
Bamboozled!

"𒉺𒌌𒇷𒆷𒀭"
May 2003
Down not across

28×41 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by rcv In the 70's, somebody sold a commercial game, called "Cubit", I think. I think I have heard that the game has been "solved". But I don't have a reference.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qubic

Paul

Last fiddled with by xilman on 2012-06-16 at 09:28

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