Meta Tic Tac Toe

Sab · 2012-06-15, 23:18

Hey all, its been a long time.

I've been playing this game called Meta Tic Tac Toe. It was invented sometime in the 70's I think.

Basically for each square there is an entire normal Tic Tac Toe board. Once a player wins a smaller board they get a big X or O for the whole board. X starts making one small mark. Then O makes 2 marks wherever and X follows with 2 marks of his own etc.

This game has way more strategy than normal Tic Tac Toe and I don't think it is "solved" yet. I am going to be programming both the game and some basic AI using C++ as an exercise before I start more major projects.

Has anyone else heard of this game before? I know someone wrote about it but I can't find the paper/book anymore on google...

Give it a try if you are bored :D

Batalov · 2012-06-15, 23:42

A good one. How many levels of embedding? Just one (like a 9x9 sudoku board)?

If the rules were fractal, then it would like something like this? :-/

science_man_88 · 2012-06-16, 00:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

Hey all, its been a long time.

I've been playing this game called Meta Tic Tac Toe. It was invented sometime in the 70's I think.

Basically for each square there is an entire normal Tic Tac Toe board. Once a player wins a smaller board they get a big X or O for the whole board. X starts making one small mark. Then O makes 2 marks wherever and X follows with 2 marks of his own etc.

This game has way more strategy than normal Tic Tac Toe and I don't think it is "solved" yet. I am going to be programming both the game and some basic AI using C++ as an exercise before I start more major projects.

Has anyone else heard of this game before? I know someone wrote about it but I can't find the paper/book anymore on google...

Give it a try if you are bored :D

I looked it up and only 6 results in Google with that phrase in the title all asking for info. in pari a 3 by 3 matrix of 3 by 3 matrices I believe is:

Code:

matrix(3,3,x,y,matrix(3,3))

using the alternate name I found in the answers I found a working version online:http://www.stratigery.com/9board/gen9.php and I won once yay

Sab · 2012-06-16, 00:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Batalov

A good one. How many levels of embedding? Just one (like a 9x9 sudoku board)?

If the rules were fractal, then it would like something like this? :-/

It looks like a 9x9 sudoku board but with thicker main lines to designate the big board.

You could probably expand it to 3,4, n... layers of depth but considering not very many people know about the 2 layered version its probably good enough to play this one...

@ Science Man

Its not the same rules of 9 board. In Meta Tic Tac Toe after the first turn, both players make their marks anywhere assuming the smaller board is not already won.

I've played several games with my friends and so far there have been no ties. Interesting...

science_man_88 · 2012-06-16, 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

It looks like a 9x9 sudoku board but with thicker main lines to designate the big board.

You could probably expand it to 3,4, n... layers of depth but considering not very many people know about the 2 layered version its probably good enough to play this one...

@ Science Man

Its not the same rules of 9 board. In Meta Tic Tac Toe after the first turn, both players make their marks anywhere assuming the smaller board is not already won.

I've played several games with my friends and so far there have been no ties. Interesting...

okay sorry it's just that that's the closest thing I found to what you described. so marks are made on any board in any order so it's like you are playing 9 games at a time ? really the only difference I seem to have in mind between that and nine board is that the version of nine board I linked to forces you onto a specific board dependent on your opponent's play, oh and the game ends when you win one board.

Dubslow · 2012-06-16, 01:34

I once played 3- and 4-dimensional tic tac toe, often with dimensions larger than three. Of course, you'd have to write down the board in two dimensions, and fill in how each square relates to the others with your head. It was just me and some friends, I've never heard of similar games or this Meta Tic Tac Toe before.

Attached are two examples of 4x4x4 games.

Dubslow · 2012-06-16, 01:42

Here's the longest example of a 4x4x4x4 match that I could find.

We played two 5x5x5s, but never a 5x5x5x5.

petrw1 · 2012-06-16, 01:52

We played 4X4X4 in University in the late 70's.
We even played against a computer opponent....but never won.

xilman · 2012-06-16, 07:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by petrw1

We played 4X4X4 in University in the late 70's.
We even played against a computer opponent....but never won.

I've [played 4x4x4 many times in the early 80s, occasionally against human opponents but usually against machines. A friend of mine, Steve Thomas, wrote a program in Z80 assembler which was blindingly fast and rather good at the game. (Steve also wrote a much stronger but slower version in BCPL.) He and I were the only people to take it on with any degree of success. The problem for most opponents wasn't the strength of its play per se but its speed. With sub-second responses at all times, human players seemed compelled to respond much more quickly than necessary and so made silly mistakes.

Somewhere I've a physical 4x4x4 board, though I'm not entirely sure where. It consists of four layers of transparent plastic mounted on pillars at the corners. Each layer contains a 4x4 grid of holes, into which a coloured marble may be placed.

rcv · 2012-06-16, 08:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by xilman

I've [played 4x4x4 many times in the early 80s, occasionally against human opponents but usually against machines. A friend of mine, Steve Thomas, wrote a program in Z80 assembler which was blindingly fast and rather good at the game. (Steve also wrote a much stronger but slower version in BCPL.) He and I were the only people to take it on with any degree of success. The problem for most opponents wasn't the strength of its play per se but its speed. With sub-second responses at all times, human players seemed compelled to respond much more quickly than necessary and so made silly mistakes.

Somewhere I've a physical 4x4x4 board, though I'm not entirely sure where. It consists of four layers of transparent plastic mounted on pillars at the corners. Each layer contains a 4x4 grid of holes, into which a coloured marble may be placed.

Small world, isn't it. I had a homemade (Plexiglas) 3D tic-tac-toe board. Used colored plastic disks from a toy construction kit for the game pieces. Cells were numbered "111" through "444" with Dymo Label Tape. In the 70's, somebody sold a commercial game, called "Cubit", I think.

"Programming the IBM 1130 and 1800" by Robert K Louden contains a Fortran implementation of 3D tic-tac-toe. [I don't recall which Edition, if that matters.] My college had an IBM 1620, which had a binary 3D tic-tac-toe program. Functionally, it played identically to the Fortran program I mention. It was very good for computer demonstrations at "open house", but somebody who was good at games could easily beat it.

I wrote an IBM 360/370 Assembler 3D tic-tac-toe game, which looked far ahead. It was available on our timesharing system. In the five or so years after I wrote the program, only one person besides myself could consistently beat it.

I think I have heard that the game has been "solved". But I don't have a reference.

@OP: I haven't heard of your game. You might find the referenced Fortran program of interest, but I don't think anybody would program a game in the same manner, today.

xilman · 2012-06-16, 09:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcv

In the 70's, somebody sold a commercial game, called "Cubit", I think.

I think I have heard that the game has been "solved". But I don't have a reference.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qubic

Paul

2012-06-15, 23:18	#1
Sab Jul 2009 19 Posts	Meta Tic Tac Toe Hey all, its been a long time. I've been playing this game called Meta Tic Tac Toe. It was invented sometime in the 70's I think. Basically for each square there is an entire normal Tic Tac Toe board. Once a player wins a smaller board they get a big X or O for the whole board. X starts making one small mark. Then O makes 2 marks wherever and X follows with 2 marks of his own etc. This game has way more strategy than normal Tic Tac Toe and I don't think it is "solved" yet. I am going to be programming both the game and some basic AI using C++ as an exercise before I start more major projects. Has anyone else heard of this game before? I know someone wrote about it but I can't find the paper/book anymore on google... Give it a try if you are bored :D

2012-06-16, 01:34	#6
Dubslow Basketry That Evening! "Bunslow the Bold" Jun 2011 40<A<43 -89<O<-88 3×29×83 Posts	I once played 3- and 4-dimensional tic tac toe, often with dimensions larger than three. Of course, you'd have to write down the board in two dimensions, and fill in how each square relates to the others with your head. It was just me and some friends, I've never heard of similar games or this Meta Tic Tac Toe before. Attached are two examples of 4x4x4 games. Attached Thumbnails Last fiddled with by Dubslow on 2012-06-16 at 01:39

2012-06-16, 01:42	#7
Dubslow Basketry That Evening! "Bunslow the Bold" Jun 2011 40<A<43 -89<O<-88 3×29×83 Posts	Sorry, one attachment per post Here's the longest example of a 4x4x4x4 match that I could find. We played two 5x5x5s, but never a 5x5x5x5. Attached Thumbnails

2012-06-15, 23:42	#2
Batalov "Serge" Mar 2008 Phi(4,2^7658614+1)/2 9257₁₀ Posts	A good one. How many levels of embedding? Just one (like a 9x9 sudoku board)? If the rules were fractal, then it would like something like this? :-/

2012-06-16, 01:52	#8
petrw1 1976 Toyota Corona years forever! "Wayne" Nov 2006 Saskatchewan, Canada 2·3·5·151 Posts	We played 4X4X4 in University in the late 70's. We even played against a computer opponent....but never won.