mersenneforum.org  

Go Back   mersenneforum.org > Extra Stuff > Miscellaneous Math

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2008-06-13, 04:49   #23
Visu
 
Visu's Avatar
 
Nov 2006
Singapore

3×52 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by R.D. Silverman View Post

What is it about mathematics that people who are totally ignorant
(and who know they are ignorant) think they can magically solve
problems that have eluded PhD's for centuries??? We see this phenomenon
constantly on the Internet.
Engineering - Perpetual Motion Machines

Chemistry - Making "fuel" from water

Physics - Cold fusion

Biology - Cryptozoology

Just some examples to show that this "phenomenon" is not restricted to mathematics.
Visu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-13, 08:07   #24
xilman
Bamboozled!
 
xilman's Avatar
 
"π’‰Ίπ’ŒŒπ’‡·π’†·π’€­"
May 2003
Down not across

3·112·29 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Visu View Post
Engineering - Perpetual Motion Machines

Chemistry - Making "fuel" from water

Physics - Cold fusion

Biology - Cryptozoology

Just some examples to show that this "phenomenon" is not restricted to mathematics.
Medicine - homeopathy.

Actually, even people who do (allegedly) know what they're doing in medicine sometimes come up with "magical" solutions. Consider the vast amount of money made from various smart antacid drugs for treating stomach ulcers. Most of those drugs most of the time are little better than expensive palliatives. Treating a helicobacter infection with regular antibiotics has now been shown to be much more effective.

Paul
xilman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-13, 23:50   #25
CRGreathouse
 
CRGreathouse's Avatar
 
Aug 2006

10111010010102 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Fischbach View Post
from Euler's formula e^ipi = -1

let 0 + i0 = 1/1^s +1/2^s + 1/3^s +1/4^s . . .

now you choose any term except 1/1^s and move it to the left side of
the equation I've choosen 1/2^s

-1/2^s = 1/1^s +1/3^s +1/4^s . . .

from Euler's formula you now have

e^ipi/2^s = 1/1^s +1/3^s +1/4^s. . .
This incorrectly assumes that the series form of zeta is convergent for all complex s, where in fact it is divergent at all points of interest to the RH.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Fischbach View Post
0 +i0 = 1/2^s +e^ipi/2^s

multiplying both sides by 2^2s you get

0+ i0 = 2^s + 2^s*e^ipi

next

0 +i0 = 2^(a +iq)+2^(a+iq)*e^ipi

then

0 +i0 = 2^a*2^iq + 2^a*2^iq*e^ipi
Here you recover: the first assertion is true, and each of the following steps are correct. You now have 2^s - 2^s = 0 for s = a + qi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Fischbach View Post
let 2^q = e^pi
This means that you're considering s with complex part = 4.532...; an odd choice, but valid since you haven't otherwise specified the value of s.

It is worth mentioning that the first nontrivial zeta zero is at 1/2 + 14.134...i, so zeta(s) is not zero.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Fischbach View Post
0 +i0 = 2^a*e^ipi + 2^a*e^ipi*e^ipi
This does not follow from your substitution, but it is correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Fischbach View Post
0 + i0 = 2^a*-1 + 2^a*-1*-1

add i0 to both sides

0 +i0 = -2^a + 2^a +i0

therefore

0 +i0 = 0 +i0
Quite correct. You've shown that if s is any complex number with imaginary part i * Pi/log(2), it follows that 0 = 0.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Fischbach View Post
Note (a) can be any real value not just 1/2 therefore Riemann's hypothesis is incorrect.
This does not follow in any way. You've demonstrated that 0 = 0, but you would need to demonstrate that zeta(a + bi) = 0 for some a β‰  0, b β‰  1/2.
CRGreathouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-14, 06:19   #26
Jwb52z
 
Jwb52z's Avatar
 
Sep 2002

2·17·23 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by R.D. Silverman View Post
I am curious. You admit that you are unsure of yourself.
Why then would you even try something like this? Don't you
realize it makes you look foolish? I am sure that you are equally
ignorant about (say) neurosurgery. But you wouldn't presume to
suggest a new surgical technique would you?

What is it about mathematics that people who are totally ignorant
(and who know they are ignorant) think they can magically solve
problems that have eluded PhD's for centuries??? We see this phenomenon
constantly on the Internet.

I also suggest that you need to go back to school to learn how
to write cogent English. Not only is your mathematics bad, but so is
your spelling, grammar, punctuation, and sentence structure. Indeed, your
use of the phrase "complex math" doesn't even mean what you
clearly intended. "complex math" is not the same as "mathematics of
complex valued functions". Your public writing makes you appear to be a
total cretin. Do you like to appear foolish???
People are "foolish" when they don't know for sure if they can do something and try it anyway? Wow......that's just.........wow.... By that line of thinking, no one should try anything or bother having initiative unless they are geniuses.
Jwb52z is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-14, 06:26   #27
Jwb52z
 
Jwb52z's Avatar
 
Sep 2002

78210 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Visu View Post
Engineering - Perpetual Motion Machines

Chemistry - Making "fuel" from water

Physics - Cold fusion

Biology - Cryptozoology

Just some examples to show that this "phenomenon" is not restricted to mathematics.
I could have sworn that cold fusion had actually been done by now and that cryptozoology was real.
Jwb52z is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-14, 06:28   #28
Jwb52z
 
Jwb52z's Avatar
 
Sep 2002

2×17×23 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by xilman View Post
Medicine - homeopathy.

Actually, even people who do (allegedly) know what they're doing in medicine sometimes come up with "magical" solutions. Consider the vast amount of money made from various smart antacid drugs for treating stomach ulcers. Most of those drugs most of the time are little better than expensive palliatives. Treating a helicobacter infection with regular antibiotics has now been shown to be much more effective.

Paul
Homeopathic medicine isn't always a crank. For example, if you don't have anything, drug-wise, to bring down a fever, all you have to do is swallow a spider web, which is usually done better with a bit of orange juice. It's an antipiruvic. As far as I know, there isn't a shortage of spider webs.
Jwb52z is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-14, 06:38   #29
S485122
 
S485122's Avatar
 
Sep 2006
Brussels, Belgium

33×61 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jwb52z View Post
People are "foolish" when they don't know for sure if they can do something and try it anyway? Wow......that's just.........wow.... By that line of thinking, no one should try anything or bother having initiative unless they are geniuses.
What would you say if I told you that, with no experience in montain climbing, I was telling you that tomorrow I will climb Mt Everest alone and with no help. At least something like "why not try something easier first".

If you read this thread from the beginning you are showing pure bad faith.

If you are just picking statements by R. D. Silverman to criticize them, you are doing exactly what you accuse him of.

You could at least do what you want him to do : just ignore some posts or posters.

Jacob

Judging by your following posts, you are developping an interesting case of cranckiness. Ingesting spider webs for instance has nothing to do with homeopathy.

Last fiddled with by S485122 on 2008-09-14 at 06:41
S485122 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-14, 11:37   #30
Mini-Geek
Account Deleted
 
Mini-Geek's Avatar
 
"Tim Sorbera"
Aug 2006
San Antonio, TX USA

17·251 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by S485122 View Post
What would you say if I told you that, with no experience in montain climbing, I was telling you that tomorrow I will climb Mt Everest alone and with no help. At least something like "why not try something easier first".
That would be dumb, because you'd die.
Math or any other thing where you're not in danger is a different story.
Terrible analogy.
Mini-Geek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-14, 12:02   #31
S485122
 
S485122's Avatar
 
Sep 2006
Brussels, Belgium

33×61 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mini-Geek View Post
Math or any other thing where you're not in danger is a different story.
Terrible analogy.
I tried to use a totally subject in my analogy on purpose. If I had used an analogy that is more on topic like "I do not know anything about algebra but I have found an error in the (second) Noether theorem", the analogy would serve no purpose, it would just be restating the same arguments.

Jacob
S485122 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-15, 09:07   #32
xilman
Bamboozled!
 
xilman's Avatar
 
"π’‰Ίπ’ŒŒπ’‡·π’†·π’€­"
May 2003
Down not across

1052710 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jwb52z View Post
Homeopathic medicine isn't always a crank. For example, if you don't have anything, drug-wise, to bring down a fever, all you have to do is swallow a spider web, which is usually done better with a bit of orange juice. It's an antipiruvic. As far as I know, there isn't a shortage of spider webs.
True, there's no shortage of spider webs.

However, your claim is a non sequitur. Swallowing a spider web, with or without orange juice, has nothing to do with homeopathy.


Paul
xilman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-09-15, 11:33   #33
R.D. Silverman
 
R.D. Silverman's Avatar
 
Nov 2003

1D2416 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jwb52z View Post
People are "foolish" when they don't know for sure if they can do something and try it anyway? Wow......that's just.........wow.... By that line of thinking, no one should try anything or bother having initiative unless they are geniuses.

You are confusing knowledge and intelligence.
One need not be a genius to try something. One does need to
be informed. One should not be ignorant.
R.D. Silverman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hello, who could be able to endorse me so that I can publish on arxiv about Riemann Hypothesis? magox Math 12 2016-07-07 03:01
Connection to the Riemann's hypothesis kurtulmehtap Math 17 2009-10-17 15:40
The Riemann Hypothesis at 150 ewmayer Math 0 2009-10-09 16:50
Riemann Hypothesis according to Bearnol bearnol Miscellaneous Math 20 2006-08-01 14:08
Riemann Hypothesis is false????? georgekh Miscellaneous Math 3 2004-12-02 18:45

All times are UTC. The time now is 22:24.

Wed Jan 27 22:24:09 UTC 2021 up 55 days, 18:35, 0 users, load averages: 2.55, 3.14, 3.42

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum has received and complied with 0 (zero) government requests for information.

Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or any later version published by the Free Software Foundation.
A copy of the license is included in the FAQ.