mersenneforum.org New cryptocurrency causing disk drive shortage
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 2021-04-24, 06:20 #12 LaurV Romulan Interpreter     "name field" Jun 2011 Thailand 265416 Posts Well, that is still quite "unoptainable" in the sense that it will burn a large hole in your pocket
 2021-05-03, 19:28 #13 storm5510 Random Account     Aug 2009 1,987 Posts Something I thought I had mentioned here, but apparently not. Three weeks ago, I ordered a Samsung SSD and adapter card for my HP. It has the proper slot for the card. The USPS lost the package and I was issued a refund. I ordered the pair again yesterday. This time, each item is being shipped separately. The SSD is going to take an extra day to get here. This suggests a dwindling supply. I am hopeful nothing gets lost again.
 2021-05-29, 23:26 #14 Aramis Wyler     "Bill Staffen" Jan 2013 Pittsburgh, PA, USA 23×53 Posts *calls up usps from his home in Seattle* *redirects Storm's ssd to my house*
2021-05-30, 20:09   #15
ewmayer
2ω=0

Sep 2002
República de California

266348 Posts

Bitcoin rival Chia 'destroyed' hard disc supply chains, says its boss
Quote:
 Chia, a cryptocurrency intended to be a “green” alternative to bitcoin has instead caused a global shortage of hard discs. Gene Hoffman, the president of Chia Network, the company behind the currency, admits that “we’ve kind of destroyed the short-term supply chain”, but he denies it will become an environmental drain. Bitcoin requires so-called miners to do vast amounts of useless calculations to maintain the network, a system that is known as proof of work. The most recent studies show that bitcoin may currently consume 0.53 per cent of the world’s electricity supply. Chia instead uses a proof-of-space approach that ditches these calculations and relies on empty hard disc space. The more space a miner devotes to the task, the higher their probability of receiving new coins. In theory, this would consume less energy, but there has been a surge in demand for hard discs since the currency launched earlier this year. Around 12 million terabytes of hard disc space is currently being used to mine Chia, having risen on an exponential curve since its launch in March. When New Scientist first reported on Chia just two weeks ago, that figure was only at 3 million terabytes. These discs still require energy to produce and run, and there are reports that the constant reading and writing involved in mining can wear them out in weeks, rendering them useless. Hoffman says this problem only affects the cheapest discs. The resulting increase in demand has caused significant price rises for hard discs, especially higher-end models. The share price of hard disc maker Western Digital has increased from $52 at the start of the year to$73, while competitor Seagate is up from $60 to$94 over the same period. Hoffman says he is surprised at the speed at which the hard disc capacity devoted to Chia has grown and admits that this is likely to cause disruptions to the supply chain for some time. In the long term, he thinks the increased demand being driven by Chia will lower the cost of hard discs as manufacturers ramp up production. He is also adamant that even with continued growth, the network won’t approach bitcoin’s energy consumption.
Even if one accepts the CEO's self-promotional claims, "more environmentally benign than Bitcoin" is a *really* low bar, especially for a "product" whose only proven uses are criminal activity and market speculation.

2021-05-31, 00:59   #16
chalsall
If I May

"Chris Halsall"
Sep 2002

22×7×359 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by ewmayer Even if one accepts the CEO's self-promotional claims, "more environmentally benign than Bitcoin" is a *really* low bar, especially for a "product" whose only proven uses are criminal activity and market speculation.
It /could/ be argued that this claim is equally applicable to "fiat currencies" such as USD and UK Pounds. And even gold.

We've recently realized that maybe reducing entropy (be it mining "coins" or real rare elements) doesn't scale terribly well in a relatively "closed" system. A system we don't actually fully understand (many variables).

Perhaps the early mining should be taken into consideration of the current, and the "commons cost" of all over time.

Just putting that out there for discussion...

2021-05-31, 14:30   #17
Dr Sardonicus

Feb 2017
Nowhere

5,147 Posts

Tangible forms of money - particularly precious metals - are reusable, and have the advantage that they obviate any question about whether the payer has it. Of course, they have the disadvantage that they can be stolen. They can also be counterfeited or, with coins, debased. Nero and Henry VIII are famous rulers who intentionally debased their nation's coinage. I've read that Henry VIII saw the "Great Debasement" (which see) as a way to increase government funds without raising taxes.

I don't know whether cryptocurrencies are prone to theft or counterfeiting, though robbery (coercing somebody to convey their money to you by threats of violence) is conceivable.

I have also read that the value of cryptocurrencies is in the nature of a speculative bubble. The following quotation comes to mind:
Quote:
 Like a dropsical man calling out for water, water, our deluded citizens are clamoring for more banks, more banks. The American mind is now in that state of fever which the world has so often seen in the history of other nations. We are under the bank bubble, as England was under the South Sea bubble, France under the Mississippi bubble, and as every nation is liable to be, under whatever bubble, design, or delusion may puff up in moments when off their guard. We are now taught to believe that legerdemain tricks upon paper can produce as solid wealth as hard labor in the earth. It is vain for common sense to urge that nothing can produce nothing; that it is an idle dream to believe in a philosopher's stone which is to turn everything into gold, and to redeem man from the original sentence of his Maker, "in the sweat of his brow shall he eat his bread."
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Charles Yancey (January 6, 1816.)

 2021-05-31, 20:30 #18 kriesel     "TF79LL86GIMPS96gpu17" Mar 2017 US midwest 172D16 Posts Yes. Governments come and go, as do their currencies. Gold silver etc value fluctuates but markedly less than a drop to zero by dissolution or near zero by hyperinflation, and more importantly, can fluctuate differently than fiat currency or other alleged value stores. We have different words for cost, price, value, worth (never mind wholesale, retail, buying, selling, exchange rate, profit, loss, etc), and for spend, waste, dissipate, invest, income, expense, depreciate, appreciate, etc, for good reasons.
2021-05-31, 20:48   #19
chalsall
If I May

"Chris Halsall"
Sep 2002

1005210 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Dr Sardonicus Thomas Jefferson, letter to Charles Yancey (January 6, 1816.)
Quote:
 Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
- George Santayana, The Life of Reason, 1905.

2021-05-31, 20:52   #20
chalsall
If I May

"Chris Halsall"
Sep 2002

274416 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by kriesel We have different words for cost, price, value, worth (never mind wholesale, retail, buying, selling, exchange rate, profit, loss, etc), and for spend, waste, dissipate, invest, income, expense, depreciate, appreciate, etc, for good reasons.
Sorry. We cross-posted.

Yes. I agree. Many different words for many different variables.

Very few understand any of the variables, let alone the equations. Even the economists admit they don't fully understand the stuff.

(We can bring Issac Asimov into this a bit later if you'd like...)

2021-05-31, 21:54   #21
Uncwilly
6809 > 6502

"""""""""""""""""""
Aug 2003
101×103 Posts

13·19·41 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by kriesel Gold silver
If you base your economy on these metals, you can only have an economy that grows with the population if you can find and mine more of these metals. There was a stagnant period in European history where there was no new silver being found. It gets covered in the most recent episode of The History of English podcast. It does not matter if your society is making more useful things, only gold and silver. And woe the society that finds technical uses for those metals, their economy can go down, even if they have just inovated.

2021-05-31, 22:01   #22
retina
Undefined

"The unspeakable one"
Jun 2006
My evil lair

2×23×137 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Uncwilly If you base your economy on these metals, you can only have an economy that grows with the population if you can find and mine more of these metals.
So does replacing "metal" with "bitcoin" mean that bitcoin is doomed to fail? After the 21M coins are found then that is the end?

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