mersenneforum.org  

Go Back   mersenneforum.org > Great Internet Mersenne Prime Search > Software

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2010-02-23, 13:59   #1
millsie
 
Jun 2009

D16 Posts
Default Embedded machine

Hello,
This is an odd one. How difficult would it be to build a custom OS for GIMPS?

I am talking about a stripped down, streamlined OS. Probably UNIX-like.

Would have to be simple to install, have little hardware support (why use up memory for USB drivers etc, when they aren't gonna be used).

I am thinking something along the lines of Download-install-input username and password for GIMPS-run. It just does that.

Any thoughts?
millsie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-02-23, 15:19   #2
R.D. Silverman
 
R.D. Silverman's Avatar
 
"Bob Silverman"
Nov 2003
North of Boston

23×3×311 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by millsie View Post
Hello,
This is an odd one. How difficult would it be to build a custom OS for GIMPS?

I am talking about a stripped down, streamlined OS. Probably UNIX-like.

Would have to be simple to install, have little hardware support (why use up memory for USB drivers etc, when they aren't gonna be used).

I am thinking something along the lines of Download-install-input username and password for GIMPS-run. It just does that.

Any thoughts?
What possible purpose would it serve? What would it provide that is
not already provided now?

Disabling drivers is easy. Memory is cheap.
R.D. Silverman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-02-23, 16:54   #3
millsie
 
Jun 2009

13 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by R.D. Silverman View Post
What possible purpose would it serve? What would it provide that is
not already provided now?

Disabling drivers is easy. Memory is cheap.
Purpose wise it would mean the utilisation of cheaper hardare for a dedicated device. It could also squeeze more processing out each CPU. It could form the basis of a system that would link multiple boxes running this to make them work as one. Possible to process 64-bit or larger number over multiple 32-bit CPU's.

Memory is only cheap if you can afford it. Same as food, ask a Zimbabwean.
millsie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-02-23, 17:01   #4
Mini-Geek
Account Deleted
 
Mini-Geek's Avatar
 
"Tim Sorbera"
Aug 2006
San Antonio, TX USA

427810 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by millsie View Post
Purpose wise it would mean the utilisation of cheaper hardare for a dedicated device. It could also squeeze more processing out each CPU.
You could just get a Linux distro that's as barebones as possible. What benefit would something you're suggesting have over that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by millsie View Post
It could form the basis of a system that would link multiple boxes running this to make them work as one.
Trying to multithread over separate boxes would mean a bandwidth limitation that would probably make it much slower than any of the individual CPUs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by millsie View Post
Possible to process 64-bit or larger number over multiple 32-bit CPU's.
What?

Last fiddled with by Mini-Geek on 2010-02-23 at 17:10
Mini-Geek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-02-23, 17:17   #5
millsie
 
Jun 2009

11012 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mini-Geek View Post
You could just get a Linux distro that's as barebones as possible. What benefit would something you're suggesting have over that?

Trying to multithread over separate boxes would mean a bandwidth limitation that would probably make it much slower than any of the individual CPUs.
Hmm, I didn't think about the bandwidth issue, though I am sure somebody can figure out how to compensate for that (maybe a way of pre-splitting the task ahead of time?)

Yes a cut down Linux distro is something I am thinking along the lines of, but at a very low-level altered to run the software for GIMPS. Sort of integrated into the kernel.

Take the old Acorn RISC machines for example. Basic software was included in ROM with the OS. It ran extremely fast (for the day).
millsie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-02-23, 17:22   #6
retina
Undefined
 
retina's Avatar
 
"The unspeakable one"
Jun 2006
My evil lair

2×3×1,093 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by millsie View Post
Hmm, I didn't think about the bandwidth issue, though I am sure somebody can figure out how to compensate for that (maybe a way of pre-splitting the task ahead of time?)
Sure. How about we work the LL from each end. You know, one starts with the squarings and the other starts with squareroots, and they meet in the middle. Sounds simple enough. I'll let you work out how to do the squareroot part.
retina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-02-23, 17:54   #7
jasonp
Tribal Bullet
 
jasonp's Avatar
 
Oct 2004

67318 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by millsie View Post
Memory is only cheap if you can afford it. Same as food, ask a Zimbabwean.
Memory is only expensive if you haven't bought any lately. 1GB of it is $10-15 now.
jasonp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-02-23, 17:55   #8
Mini-Geek
Account Deleted
 
Mini-Geek's Avatar
 
"Tim Sorbera"
Aug 2006
San Antonio, TX USA

10B616 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by millsie View Post
Hmm, I didn't think about the bandwidth issue, though I am sure somebody can figure out how to compensate for that (maybe a way of pre-splitting the task ahead of time?)
No, not really. You obviously don't really know anything about what's going on behind the scenes, so please don't talk like you do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by millsie View Post
Yes a cut down Linux distro is something I am thinking along the lines of, but at a very low-level altered to run the software for GIMPS. Sort of integrated into the kernel.
How would integrating GIMPS into the Linux kernel make it run any faster? Prime95/mprime already uses all the assembly code optimizations and stuff it can to speed up as much as possible. The only things left to do are have the fastest hardware possible and have the fewest other processes stealing CPU time and other resources from mprime as possible.
Mini-Geek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-02-23, 19:22   #9
cheesehead
 
cheesehead's Avatar
 
"Richard B. Woods"
Aug 2002
Wisconsin USA

170148 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by millsie View Post
Hmm, I didn't think about the bandwidth issue, though I am sure somebody can figure out how to compensate for that (maybe a way of pre-splitting the task ahead of time?)
You may not have read the threads where that sort of thing has been discussed in the past, long before you joined.

The basic nature of the Lucas-Lehmer test is such that the iterations must be done in sequential order.

(In case you're wondering about a shortcut: Iteration values grow rapidly. Without modular arithmetic to cut back the size of each iterated value, only the first few hundred full iteration values could be stored within the size of the known universe. It is only by use of modular arithmetic that values of iterations past the first few can be computed. But since the modulus is different for each different Mersenne number tested, there's no way to use the iteration values from one test to speed up another test.)

Paralleling could be done, to some extent, within each FFT transform, but all those results have to be put back together at the end, before the next transform could be parceled out for parallel execution. That is where bandwidth comes in.

Quote:
Yes a cut down Linux distro is something I am thinking along the lines of, but at a very low-level altered to run the software for GIMPS. Sort of integrated into the kernel.

Take the old Acorn RISC machines for example. Basic software was included in ROM with the OS. It ran extremely fast (for the day).
The trouble is that streamlining an OS for GIMPS would speed execution by only a fraction of a percent. It's just not worth the effort, in regard to efficiency of GIMPS execution.

It could have educational value for the developer, as a project for learning about operating system internals, but not as a noticeable contribution to GIMPS progress.

- - -

I applaud your inquiry and questioning. Just be prepared to get some curt responses from veterans when your question turns out to have been answered, or your suggestion, to have been refuted, long before you joined GIMPS. :-)

I keep promising to extend our FAQs to include topics such as this, but ... (* sigh *) ... Feel free to PM me with a polite prod about my progress there.

Last fiddled with by cheesehead on 2010-02-23 at 19:39
cheesehead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-02-23, 22:45   #10
millsie
 
Jun 2009

D16 Posts
Default

Thank you cheesehead for you reply. It was informative. I shall go and mull this over.

Thank you again.
millsie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Transfering from one machine to another JVD Information & Answers 3 2012-05-12 11:47
2.5Pflops CPU + GPU machine xilman Science & Technology 3 2010-10-29 00:28
offline machine junky NFSNET Discussion 8 2004-03-25 08:32
new machine junky NFSNET Discussion 11 2004-02-21 03:39
Two programs on same machine? Unregistered Software 14 2004-02-15 16:36

All times are UTC. The time now is 16:10.


Sat Aug 13 16:10:32 UTC 2022 up 37 days, 10:57, 2 users, load averages: 0.70, 0.98, 1.03

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum has received and complied with 0 (zero) government requests for information.

Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or any later version published by the Free Software Foundation.
A copy of the license is included in the FAQ.

≠ ± ∓ ÷ × · − √ ‰ ⊗ ⊕ ⊖ ⊘ ⊙ ≤ ≥ ≦ ≧ ≨ ≩ ≺ ≻ ≼ ≽ ⊏ ⊐ ⊑ ⊒ ² ³ °
∠ ∟ ° ≅ ~ ‖ ⟂ ⫛
≡ ≜ ≈ ∝ ∞ ≪ ≫ ⌊⌋ ⌈⌉ ∘ ∏ ∐ ∑ ∧ ∨ ∩ ∪ ⨀ ⊕ ⊗ 𝖕 𝖖 𝖗 ⊲ ⊳
∅ ∖ ∁ ↦ ↣ ∩ ∪ ⊆ ⊂ ⊄ ⊊ ⊇ ⊃ ⊅ ⊋ ⊖ ∈ ∉ ∋ ∌ ℕ ℤ ℚ ℝ ℂ ℵ ℶ ℷ ℸ 𝓟
¬ ∨ ∧ ⊕ → ← ⇒ ⇐ ⇔ ∀ ∃ ∄ ∴ ∵ ⊤ ⊥ ⊢ ⊨ ⫤ ⊣ … ⋯ ⋮ ⋰ ⋱
∫ ∬ ∭ ∮ ∯ ∰ ∇ ∆ δ ∂ ℱ ℒ ℓ
𝛢𝛼 𝛣𝛽 𝛤𝛾 𝛥𝛿 𝛦𝜀𝜖 𝛧𝜁 𝛨𝜂 𝛩𝜃𝜗 𝛪𝜄 𝛫𝜅 𝛬𝜆 𝛭𝜇 𝛮𝜈 𝛯𝜉 𝛰𝜊 𝛱𝜋 𝛲𝜌 𝛴𝜎𝜍 𝛵𝜏 𝛶𝜐 𝛷𝜙𝜑 𝛸𝜒 𝛹𝜓 𝛺𝜔