Thanksgiving

[Brian-E]

Originally Posted by kladner

Is Zwarte Piet in any way related to Krampus?

Hmmm, very interesting!
I hadn't heard of Krampus, but now that I've read about this figure I have to say no. Zwarte Piet is definitely human, and also a lot more friendly than Krampus seems to be, helping Sinterklaas when he turns up on a horse (from Spain, apparently), and giving pepernoten (which are small sweets a bit like gingerbread) to the children. The problem - and now I'm being controversial because most people here still don't see it as a problem at all - is that ZP is frequently played by a white person with a blacked-up face, exaggeratedly large lips, and large gold earrings, and he is seen as a servant to the inevitably white Sint.

[ewmayer]

Originally Posted by Brian-E

Hmmm, very interesting!
I hadn't heard of Krampus, but now that I've read about this figure I have to say no. Zwarte Piet is definitely human, and also a lot more friendly than Krampus seems to be, helping Sinterklaas when he turns up on a horse (from Spain, apparently), and giving pepernoten (which are small sweets a bit like gingerbread) to the children. The problem - and now I'm being controversial because most people here still don't see it as a problem at all - is that ZP is frequently played by a white person with a blacked-up face, exaggeratedly large lips, and large gold earrings, and he is seen as a servant to the inevitably white Sint.

Here Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwarte_Piet

Krampus and Black Pete are distinct characters, but both part of the annual early December Feast of St. Nicholas. Growing up in Austria we kids always looked forward eagerly to Nikolo (= the feast day, as well as the nickname for, well, St. Nick), on which locals would dress up and play the various parts: Nikolo to hand out treats to the good children and Krampus to scare 'em with his Rute (bushel of switches, the better to beat naughty kids with - more threatening to do so than actually following through). In my memory Schwarze Peter plays a lesser role, something like a kindly trickster. (But memory might be faulty there.) Call me old-fashioned, but I like the good old definitively non-PC holiday traditions, as long as they were done in fundamentally kindly fashion.

[davar55]

Originally Posted by xilman

Today is when we give thanks for having successfully exported a bunch of religious fundamentalists in 1620, after which they went on to create a Christian State and to massacre everyone who stood in their way.
Plus ça change.

Plus ça meme chose?
We may actually agree on something, but not this. Thanks for the google tip, and HAND.

[Brian-E]

Originally Posted by ewmayer

Krampus and Black Pete are distinct characters, but both part of the annual early December Feast of St. Nicholas. Growing up in Austria we kids always looked forward eagerly to Nikolo (= the feast day, as well as the nickname for, well, St. Nick), on which locals would dress up and play the various parts: Nikolo to hand out treats to the good children and Krampus to scare 'em with his Rute (bushel of switches, the better to beat naughty kids with - more threatening to do so than actually following through). In my memory Schwarze Peter plays a lesser role, something like a kindly trickster. (But memory might be faulty there.) Call me old-fashioned, but I like the good old definitively non-PC holiday traditions, as long as they were done in fundamentally kindly fashion.

Thanks for the insight into Austrian traditions. It is fascinating.
I certainly don't call you old-fashioned to like non-PC traditions. There doesn't seem to be much of a young-old divide here between the majority who can't see anything wrong with Zwarte Piet and those who think he's a racist stereotype. What there most certainly is, however, is a clear association with rejecting Black Pete as a stereotype and not having grown up with him as a child. That's my situation of course: I am Dutch, feel Dutch, and have lived in the country for 22 years, but I didn't grow up here so I have no emotional attachment to children's traditions here.

[davar55]

Had a nice Thanksgiving dinner with family last night.
It's a very nice holiday. Terrific. Great. Fantastic.
It's good to have a nice corner of a somewhat
troubled world.

[Nick]

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone on the forum from the USA!

[AJensen89]

I look forward to this day! This holiday is one of my favorite holidays!
Be thankful for what you have; you’ll end up having more. If you concentrate on what you don’t have, you will never, ever have enough.

[Dr Sardonicus]

Originally Posted by Nick

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone on the forum from the USA!

Thank you! Do you have a similar holiday in The Netherlands? Although it is generally regarded as a home-grown USA holiday, the decorations in the stores mostly go straight from Halloween to Christmas on November 1. The day-after-Thanksgiving "Black Friday" merchandising frenzy is a relatively recent addition (or subtraction, depending how you look at it). The practice of merchants requiring employees to work on Thanksgiving Day has met considerable resistance, which has induced some merchants to rescind the practice.

Originally Posted by AJensen89

I look forward to this day! This holiday is one of my favorite holidays!
Be thankful for what you have; you’ll end up having more. If you concentrate on what you don’t have, you will never, ever have enough.

Yes, it is indeed best to be thankful for what we have, rather than concentrating on what we do not have.

We have a new President-Elect.

I have my health.

Among things I do not have, and are good not to have, are debts or major illnesses.

Among the things I lament not having are, any more, my parents. My father went first, over 30 years ago now, but my mother passed away less than three years ago.

I still think about my mother. This being Thanksgiving, I think about the farm-raised turkey she got for Thanksgiving ten years ago, when my younger sister and her husband visited. Best turkey I've ever eaten. I'm thinking about the fresh turkeys we used to get at the grocery store, which were almost as good, because where I'm living now, the only ones on offer at the grocery stores are crapped up with "a solution of turkey broth, sugar, and salt." No thanks!

And so, time for another plan. I got a whole chicken, suitable for having with stuffing/dressing. My resourceful younger sister, who I was shopping with, saw frozen ducks. The only crap with them is orange sauce, which is in a separate packet.

And I now have a big enough grill.... Hmm, how to grill a whole duck... <Google Google> (Looks at web site names...) Wait a minute! barbecuebible.com? The Barbecue Bible? D'oh! I've got the book! The Barbecue Bible by Steven Raichlen! My mom gave it to me years ago, in honor of my prowess with a Smoky Joe. A Smoky Joe's too small for most of the things in it, hadn't thought about it in ages... (Goes to shelf of cookbooks)

Yeah! Recipe, instructions for indirect grilling, including cooking time and when to add more charcoal. I can do this! Thanks, Mom...