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Old 2009-11-17, 21:22   #1
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Default Windows 7 Windows Update & Prime95 issue!!!

I built a new system with Win7 64 bit Ultimate. I spent about a week now doing OCing. And I have discovered this issue.

Apparently Prime95 64 bit has issues ONLY after installing any Win7 update.

Here's how I know there is an issue and why it's isolated to this.

I did a clean install (total of about 21 Win7 installs now, lame I know, but my SSD makes it quick), left my comp at STOCK settings (to take away OC as an issue)... did not install ANYTHING after windows 7 loaded to desktop (no drivers, no anything)... Prime95 is stable.

Then, I install "ANY" windows 7 update (even the small kb IE updates or the 20mb 64 bit kernel update, or combination) and at STOCK speeds Prime95 halts about >10 seconds into the test.. complete lock up... no BSOD no reboot...

Now... before applying ANY updates, and with a purely clean install... it was stable... but after only changing one variable, applying ANY single update, prime95 halts... even at stock comp settings.

It's not my comp because --> at stock PRIOR to updating, works fine, but after updating -> halts.

SO... I then did testing with OCCT and AMD OD stability.. they are all stable... BEFORE and AFTER any windows UPDATE, stock or OC comp.

All of this leads me to believe there is some sort of issue with Prime95 64 Bit and perhaps the windows 7 updater...? It might not be the updates themselves (ie a internet explorer compatability update) but rather something to do with the updater itself because any single update causes this? Obviously I cannot be sure of which one.

I searched and there have been a few isolated instances of this occuring...

Any ideas? Anyone else find this issue?
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Old 2009-11-19, 01:02   #2
CADavis
 
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Been running Windows 7 Ultimate x64 since RTM... no problems! Do you have automatic updates enabled? I have them automatic download but not automatic install.
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Old 2009-12-07, 18:26   #3
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Default Windows 7 & Prime95 issue!!!

I had the same problem when first running Prim95.

I found out that if I turned off the transparent windows (I think it is called AIR something), the system becomes reponsive again, although very sluggish.

My guess is that the threads used by the AIR features have a lower priority than the threads of Prime95 (even if I set them to low priority, which I did). The display just does not updated (feels like a lock up).

Hope this helps,
Osiris
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Old 2010-04-05, 07:35   #4
Freightyard
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opedroso View Post
I had the same problem when first running Prim95.

I found out that if I turned off the transparent windows (I think it is called AIR something), the system becomes reponsive again, although very sluggish.

My guess is that the threads used by the AIR features have a lower priority than the threads of Prime95 (even if I set them to low priority, which I did). The display just does not updated (feels like a lock up).

Hope this helps,
Osiris
Ditto. I've had same non-responsive problems, but 100% repeatability is when opening Photoshop. It hangs for a LONG time, but if I exit Prime95 then the hang ends instantly.

Adobe has a background copy-protection program that I wonder if Prime95 runs at a higher priority? OR, maybe a driver? I've suspected iastor.sys (Intel Matrix RAID) or the nVidia drivers.

I've had some other, less repeatable hangs with other software than Adobe products as well. I'm on Win7 x64, Intel ICH10R RAID, nVidia GTX280.

There *is* most definitely something afoot.
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Old 2010-04-05, 11:13   #5
joblack
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I built a new system with Win7 64 bit Ultimate. I spent about a week now doing OCing. And I have discovered this issue.

Apparently Prime95 64 bit has issues ONLY after installing any Win7 update.

Here's how I know there is an issue and why it's isolated to this.

I did a clean install (total of about 21 Win7 installs now, lame I know, but my SSD makes it quick), left my comp at STOCK settings (to take away OC as an issue)... did not install ANYTHING after windows 7 loaded to desktop (no drivers, no anything)... Prime95 is stable.

Then, I install "ANY" windows 7 update (even the small kb IE updates or the 20mb 64 bit kernel update, or combination) and at STOCK speeds Prime95 halts about >10 seconds into the test.. complete lock up... no BSOD no reboot...

Now... before applying ANY updates, and with a purely clean install... it was stable... but after only changing one variable, applying ANY single update, prime95 halts... even at stock comp settings.

It's not my comp because --> at stock PRIOR to updating, works fine, but after updating -> halts.

SO... I then did testing with OCCT and AMD OD stability.. they are all stable... BEFORE and AFTER any windows UPDATE, stock or OC comp.

All of this leads me to believe there is some sort of issue with Prime95 64 Bit and perhaps the windows 7 updater...? It might not be the updates themselves (ie a internet explorer compatability update) but rather something to do with the updater itself because any single update causes this? Obviously I cannot be sure of which one.

I searched and there have been a few isolated instances of this occuring...

Any ideas? Anyone else find this issue?
Move it out of the Program Files folder and you're all right.
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Old 2010-04-05, 16:26   #6
CADavis
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freightyard View Post
Ditto. I've had same non-responsive problems, but 100% repeatability is when opening Photoshop. It hangs for a LONG time, but if I exit Prime95 then the hang ends instantly.

Adobe has a background copy-protection program that I wonder if Prime95 runs at a higher priority? OR, maybe a driver? I've suspected iastor.sys (Intel Matrix RAID) or the nVidia drivers.

I've had some other, less repeatable hangs with other software than Adobe products as well. I'm on Win7 x64, Intel ICH10R RAID, nVidia GTX280.

There *is* most definitely something afoot.
i would suggest to read Undoc.txt and use the setting PauseWhileRunning= in prime.txt. This way you can make Prime95 automatically pause when photoshop is running.
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Old 2010-04-09, 02:31   #7
Freightyard
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joblack View Post
Move it out of the Program Files folder and you're all right.
I read this before somewhere. What is your understanding of how being in Program Files causes problems? I'm running the ntprime64 service, by the way, and it runs under the NT AUTHORITY\SYSTEM account which I don't believe has any permission issues in Program Files.

Also, I am storing my data files in the Program Files directory. I could use the -w switch to move it to the "all users" ProgramData folder.

I'd like to understand the issue, not just make guesses.
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Old 2010-04-09, 18:40   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freightyard View Post
I read this before somewhere. What is your understanding of how being in Program Files causes problems?

< snip >

I'd like to understand the issue, not just make guesses.
Windows 7 doesn't want (i.e., prohibits, by default) programs to write into the Program Files folder.

As for why Prime95 writes (by default) into its own folder, see George's explanation in the Software subforum's "Prime95 version 25.11" thread at http://www.mersenneforum.org/showpos...4&postcount=59

Last fiddled with by cheesehead on 2010-04-09 at 18:44
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Old 2010-04-09, 21:31   #9
Freightyard
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheesehead View Post
Windows 7 doesn't want (i.e., prohibits, by default) programs to write into the Program Files folder.
Correct; and for good reason. I also understand the reasons prime95 uses the .exe location for data (not having a separate development fork).

As I am running ntprime64 as a service under the Local System account, permissions to "Program Files" is not an issue, AFAIK. Thus, I don't see that joblack's advice will change anything:

Quote:
Originally Posted by joblack View Post
Move it out of the Program Files folder and you're all right.
As far as my "hangs" go, I probably will try the "PauseWhileRunning" setting to solve my Photoshop issue (which is the most substantial for me):

Quote:
Originally Posted by CADavis View Post
i would suggest to read Undoc.txt and use the setting PauseWhileRunning= in prime.txt. This way you can make Prime95 automatically pause when photoshop is running.
However, I still occasionally experience delays at other times, especially in file Explorer (creating new folders in particular). I have not pinned these delays directly on Prime95 as of yet.
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Old 2010-04-09, 23:50   #10
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Aside from suggesting that you try PauseWhileRunning=explorer.exe ;-)
I don't have any good idea except that it looks like the sort of problem I luvvvvved to solve back when I was a systems programmer. However, in the course of diversifying my life I failed to familiarize myself with the inner details of Microsoft operating systems (reinforced by my horror and disgust upon learning about their habitual "memory leaks").

Last fiddled with by cheesehead on 2010-04-09 at 23:56
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Old 2010-04-10, 00:20   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheesehead View Post
Aside from suggesting that you try PauseWhileRunning=explorer.exe ;-)
I don't have any good idea...
Ditto. Hence, sometimes a little duct tape suffices.
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