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Old 2013-07-09, 09:32   #1
Brian-E
 
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Default Vote Chess game 1: the post snort'em

While we're waiting to see if no-one objects to the private team comments on vote chess game 1 being publicised, I suggest we allow everyone (participants and observers alike!) to comment on the play. I for one am keen to know where henryzz' team, of which I was a member (still am if we keep the same team makeup for game 2), made our fatal mistakes.

Here are some interesting comments by gd_barnes from the now locked thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by gd_barnes View Post
[...]Black has excellent coordination of all pieces and white has had no way to mobilize his resources for as many as 10 moves now due to black's excellent coordination. Black has an overwhelming advantage and the explanation by LaurV shows that he knows that he will come out of a large exchange with at least a rook advantage (or mate) over the next 5-10 moves.

Although there were others, the main mistake in this game for white was playing the closed Sicilian in an effort to "get out of book". Chessbase shows an almost immediate equalizing by black in most variations and is winning in many others.

Moral: Don't attempt to get out of main book lines too early in correspondence chess. Referring to opening books and databases is completely legal and your opponent will usually jump all over you if he has any idea of what he is doing. There's usually a reason why an opening line is played very little.
Personally I cannot agree that selecting the Closed Sicilian was a mistake in itself. Openings, in my opinion, should be selected on the basis of the style of game to which the players are suited. Also, the Closed Sicilian is hardly an off-beat opening: on the contrary, it is popular in general amongst top players, even if it may be a little out of fashion during the last few years. The fact that it has less theoretical analysis than some other variations of the Sicilian defence is, I think, largely due to its being a less knife-edge opening than, say, the Najdorf variation where a single minor slip can be fatal.

I do take the point that in correspondence chess it is even more important to make exact moves which drive home any advantage mercilessly, such as the slight advantage which White has at the start of the game, than it is in over-the-board chess.

In the broader game, where did the Geckos slip up? What were the good and bad moves in the game?
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Old 2013-07-09, 14:16   #2
LaurV
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The most "unfortunate" move was when you moved your bishop to c6 (think it was move 27?). I cannot say it was bad, maybe you had better moves, maybe not, but it was just unfortunate because I personally analyzed that version deeply and I commented on the pirates' thread before you made the move that Bc6 is black win. Up to that point the game was somehow in equilibrium, and it deteriorated rapidly (for you) after that. This is my opinion, but actually I said that you will lose the game and we will win after almost every move that was done... That's the spirit
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Old 2013-07-09, 15:28   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian-E View Post
I for one am keen to know where henryzz' team, of which I was a member (still am if we keep the same team makeup for game 2), made our fatal mistakes.
When black got his passed porn, he wasn't seriously thinking of defending it. However, since white wasn't bothered with the effort of takingit when he could, it became something more severe than a nuisance.

D
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Old 2013-07-09, 18:36   #4
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All of the Toxic Geckos have agreed to have their forum unlocked so you all should have access to it now.
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Old 2013-07-09, 20:16   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyzzy View Post
All of the Toxic Geckos have agreed to have their forum unlocked so you all should have access to it now.
IMO, that's *really* cool.

One of the fundamentals of Science is having an audit trail.
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Old 2013-07-09, 22:09   #6
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@LaurV Interesting that you had your win after 27.Bc6 all worked out before we played that. If I remember right, we were quite pessimistic about our chances by then anyway: trawling through our newly opened team subforum should confirm or deny that vague memory of mine.

@davieddy One or two other members of the Toxic Geckos were keen to aim to take that passed pawn at some stage. I was more keen to blockade it. What I suggested did not seem to do us any favours. I must try to listen to my team mates more!

And now, for some further analysis of our game: someone has sent me the following private message. I have edited it only slightly to remove what the sender says is the Shaolin Pirates' password. (Mike: when we start the new game you had better give them a new password!) The sender of the message has given me permission to post it in public.
Quote:
I have unfortunately been banned for 6 months, so I discuss with you by this way

raman

I think 17. Qb3 is major mistake White fell apart

Why not 17. exd5?

10. Rb1, 11. Ne2 were weaker moves, you could have taken advantage with 10. e5, 11. e5, White Bishop threatening black a8 rook after exchanging knights, stop black d4 knight protection with black bishop, attack black d6 pawn, etc.

13. g4 weakening kingside, why not 13. d4? 13...Qc7 / 13...Qd7

What was motivation behind 14. g5? 14. Ng3 would have been good, or atleast 14. exf5 or 14. gxf5 I like exchanging than advancing

15. c3 was weaker, 15. c4 would have been stronger, dominating center

From move 20 black dominated game from slight advantage - decisive advantage

22. Qb1 equally good as 22. Qc1 maybe possibly likely they were probably IMO

23. Kf1 was good move, 23. Bxb7 would have been extremely bad, 23. Bxb7 Nd2 24. Qe1 exf4 25. Nd4 f3!

[...]

25. b3 25... Be6 or 25. a4 25... a6 or Bd7 is better than 25. Kg2, you could have entered queen inside

30. a3 is extremely weak IMO, you should have played 30. Ng1 or 30. h4 or even Bb7, 30. a4 is weaker

33. a4, 33. Bxb5, 33. h4 are better than 33. Bb7

27. Nf3 is slightly better than 27. Bc6
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Old 2013-07-09, 23:48   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chalsall View Post
One of the fundamentals of Science is having an audit trail.
Wise words.
Could the principle be applied to trial factoring?
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Old 2013-07-10, 04:06   #8
LaurV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyzzy View Post
All of the Toxic Geckos have agreed to have their forum unlocked so you all should have access to it now.
I had a fast look on the "important moves" on the Geckos' forum. I must say that their forum is really a nice example of team work, they analyzed and discussed more than we did, and the spirit was much higher. I do really have to congratulate them, as a team. We got lost in childish stuff like giving funny names to threads and did not openly analyzed the game so much.

BTW, why the Pirates' topic is not open too? As I repeatedly say, I do agree to make it open, and I know other members agreed too. I don't remember what Dubslow's opinion was, and also it may be necessary that some "supermods" who argued in our team's forum (Serge, Chris, Mike) to give their "vote" too, but from reading above (and knowing them), they won't have anything against. Or you wait for Raman's vote? (After reading the other team's topic about giving them our password, I feel sorry I took the side of Raman in the discussion about counting posts... Now the guy seems to me more stupid than childish...)

I would like the Pirates' forum open too, and I would like a "digest" mode in which all the posts from both forums and all threads, are mixed (interlaced) in chronological order (to read what each team was thinking at every move, this could be fun!). Dreaming, huh?

Last fiddled with by LaurV on 2013-07-10 at 04:08 Reason: /s/about/against/
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Old 2013-07-10, 06:11   #9
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We are fairly certain that all of the Shaolin Pirates have agreed to have their forum unlocked so you all should have access to it now.
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Old 2013-07-10, 09:20   #10
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Thanks, Mike, for opening up the team fora and for carefully making sure that no-one would object. As a player I'm absolutely delighted to be able to read what the other team thought as we played.

Thanks for your nice comments about our teamwork, LaurV. I've only just started delving into your team's comments but it already looks to me as if your team combined lively banter with serious chess analysis by every team member. I'm going to spend some more hours reading because I want to get more insight into the game. There will be many points where your team noticed things which all the Geckos missed completely.
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Old 2013-07-10, 17:44   #11
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Several enlightening and entertaining hours have been spent on my free day reading every thread in the Shaolin Pirates' forum. I'll just say that I find the way as a team you held everything together and won the game, in the face of various non-chess difficulties, truly admirable.
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