mersenneforum.org  

Go Back   mersenneforum.org > Fun Stuff > Lounge

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2021-11-18, 04:05   #1134
axn
 
axn's Avatar
 
Jun 2003

2×5×17×31 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncwilly View Post
Planet None
Freudian slip?
axn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2021-11-18, 04:16   #1135
Uncwilly
6809 > 6502
 
Uncwilly's Avatar
 
"""""""""""""""""""
Aug 2003
101ร—103 Posts

100111111111102 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by axn View Post
Freudian slip?
Finger slip.
Uncwilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2021-11-18, 09:12   #1136
diep
 
diep's Avatar
 
Sep 2006
The Netherlands

2×17×23 Posts
Default

Uncwilly - if you would read the reports written you'd notice that James Webb is a telescope going to a Lagrange point and it should have a goldplated mirror which therefore determines what frequencies it can function at. Unlike my own telescope which has a cheapskate aluminium mirror and which i move by hand. Whereas gold has better reflectivity at other frequencies than aluminium it still is not too far away from visible light.

Now of course we all are very happy about this project and hope it will serve science well and figure out more than Hubble - yet that's not the same as the observations and anomaly detected, regardless what it is. Whether that's a black hole or something else like a math error.

Very obviously you cannot detect a possible small blackhole with a single small telescope which works close to visible light from close to earth.

More projects on Earth is very nice for jobs on Earth and we applaude to some of them, yet we want hard evidence instead of generations of scientists who disagree and write all sorts of theories based upon the fact we do not have hard evidence what direction we need to search. Go there with different sensors and find out what's going on there and i'm sure many things will be discovered with a fleet of drones - with this as the research question. Is there a small black hole over there or is there something else going on there we don't know about?

Fleet of drones please instead of words!

You ship a bunch of small drones provided it is possible to achieve the projected goal of propulsion beyond the Oort Cloud with those drones within a few year, i'd argue even if it would take 20 years, not to mention within a year as projected.

Go find out!
diep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2021-11-18, 12:37   #1137
xilman
Bamboozled!
 
xilman's Avatar
 
"๐’‰บ๐’ŒŒ๐’‡ท๐’†ท๐’€ญ"
May 2003
Down not across

22·112·23 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by diep View Post
Very obviously you cannot detect a possible small blackhole with a single small telescope which works close to visible light from close to earth.
Very obviously you are wrong.

Ever tried observing gravitational microlensing with your telescope? I have with mine. I can put you in contact with the BAA sub-section coordinator if you wish to give it a try.
xilman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2021-11-18, 13:41   #1138
Dr Sardonicus
 
Dr Sardonicus's Avatar
 
Feb 2017
Nowhere

2×2,677 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by diep View Post
<snip>
I'd ask the question then if it's possible to ship a single rocket up with a fleet of drones,
<snip>
Exactly what do you mean by a "fleet of drones" in LEO?
Dr Sardonicus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2021-11-18, 14:20   #1139
xilman
Bamboozled!
 
xilman's Avatar
 
"๐’‰บ๐’ŒŒ๐’‡ท๐’†ท๐’€ญ"
May 2003
Down not across

22×112×23 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Sardonicus View Post
Exactly what do you mean by a "fleet of drones" in LEO?
I took it to mean a bunch of cubesats.

Not at all clear how they would have the required optical sensitivity but perhaps an explanation may be forthcoming.
xilman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2021-11-18, 14:46   #1140
Uncwilly
6809 > 6502
 
Uncwilly's Avatar
 
"""""""""""""""""""
Aug 2003
101ร—103 Posts

100111111111102 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Sardonicus View Post
Exactly what do you mean by a "fleet of drones" in LEO?
Quote:
Originally Posted by xilman View Post
I took it to mean a bunch of cubesats.

Not at all clear how they would have the required optical sensitivity but perhaps an explanation may be forthcoming.
Not likely (the explanation coming).
Quote:
Originally Posted by diep View Post
You ship a bunch of small drones provided it is possible to achieve the projected goal of propulsion beyond the Oort Cloud with those drones within a few year, i'd argue even if it would take 20 years, not to mention within a year as projected.
Diep fails to understand several things about sending small drones beyond the Oort cloud.
  1. Sources of power available to said craft at those distances.
  2. Communcation issues with small craft beyond the orbit of Jupiter or any craft beyond Neptune.
  3. The physics/propulsion to get said drones meaningfuly scattered, or to keep them in position relative to each other.
  4. The actual distance to "beyond the Oort Cloud" and the speed needed to get there.
    (The Parker Solar Probe just achieved a speed of 586,800 km/h [the fastest speed a human made thing in space has gotten to]. At that speed it would take about 4360 years to get to 150,000 AU which is near the edge of the Oort Cloud (I used that instead of the 200,000 AU figure just to make it nicer for Diep.

Last fiddled with by Dr Sardonicus on 2021-11-19 at 01:17 Reason: fignix topsy
Uncwilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2021-11-18, 14:52   #1141
Dr Sardonicus
 
Dr Sardonicus's Avatar
 
Feb 2017
Nowhere

10100111010102 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by diep View Post
You ship a bunch of small drones provided it is possible to achieve the projected goal of propulsion beyond the Oort Cloud with those drones within a few year, i'd argue even if it would take 20 years, not to mention within a year as projected.

Go find out!
Really? The Oort Cloud (whose existence AFAIK is supported more by statistical inference than hard evidence) is hypothesized to be between 2000 and 100000 AU from Mr. Sun.

If you know a way to get drones even to the inner edge of the Oort Cloud in a few years, or even 20 years, I'm sure a lot of folks would love to know about it.

Voyager I is projected to get 2000 AU out in 300 years or so.

Last fiddled with by Dr Sardonicus on 2021-11-18 at 14:55 Reason: Omit unnecessary words!
Dr Sardonicus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2021-11-18, 15:00   #1142
Uncwilly
6809 > 6502
 
Uncwilly's Avatar
 
"""""""""""""""""""
Aug 2003
101ร—103 Posts

2×5,119 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by diep View Post
Uncwilly - if you would read the reports written you'd notice that James Webb is a telescope going to a Lagrange point
And you ignored the other names I gave you. You dismiss IRAS data as being old. Do you not realise that the Palomar survey plates, which are decades older than IRAS, are still used to this day. And your assessment of HST vs JWST in results that lead to greater understanding is flawed. IRAS, ISO, and Spitzer are more closely matched to JWST in regards to where in the spectrum they look.
Uncwilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2021-11-18, 15:14   #1143
xilman
Bamboozled!
 
xilman's Avatar
 
"๐’‰บ๐’ŒŒ๐’‡ท๐’†ท๐’€ญ"
May 2003
Down not across

1113210 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncwilly View Post
And you ignored the other names I gave you. You dismiss IRAS data as being old. Do you not realise that the Palomar survey plates, which are decades older than IRAS, are still used to this day. And your assessment of HST vs JWST in results that lead to greater understanding is flawed. IRAS, ISO, and Spitzer are more closely matched to JWST in regards to where in the spectrum they look.
The Harvard plate collection goes back well over a century. C19 plates are still used to this day.
xilman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2021-11-18, 15:18   #1144
xilman
Bamboozled!
 
xilman's Avatar
 
"๐’‰บ๐’ŒŒ๐’‡ท๐’†ท๐’€ญ"
May 2003
Down not across

255748 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncwilly View Post
Not likely (the explanation coming).
Diep fails to understand several things about sending small drones beyond the Oort cloud.
  1. Sources of power available to said craft at those distances.
  2. Communcation issues with small craft beyond the orbit of Jupiter or any craft beyond Neptune.
  3. The physics/propulsion to get said drones meaningfuly scattered, or to keep them in position relative to each other.
  4. The actual distance to "beyond the Oort Cloud" and the speed needed to get there.
    (The Parker Solar Probe just achieved a speed of 586,800 km/h [the fastest speed a human made thing in space has gotten to]. At that speed it would take about 4360 years to get to 150,000 AU which is near the edge of the Oort Cloud (I used that instead of the 200,000 AU figure just to make it nicer for Diep.
See Breakthrough Starshot for an analysis of all your list items.

May be possible to build such a system this century.

Last fiddled with by Dr Sardonicus on 2021-11-19 at 01:18 Reason: fignix potsy in quote
xilman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mission Creep davieddy PrimeNet 14 2011-12-10 20:55
STS-125 Hubble Space Telescope Servicing Mission 4 lavalamp Lounge 11 2009-05-12 09:12
Mission Accomplished garo Soap Box 13 2009-01-22 20:10
Looking for a volunteer for a dangerous mission... ThomRuley Marin's Mersenne-aries 6 2004-04-26 19:40
First mission GP2 Completed Missions 2 2003-09-28 23:16

All times are UTC. The time now is 23:01.


Fri Jan 21 23:01:55 UTC 2022 up 182 days, 17:30, 0 users, load averages: 1.31, 1.64, 1.89

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum has received and complied with 0 (zero) government requests for information.

Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or any later version published by the Free Software Foundation.
A copy of the license is included in the FAQ.

โ‰  ยฑ โˆ“ รท ร— ยท โˆ’ โˆš โ€ฐ โŠ— โŠ• โŠ– โŠ˜ โŠ™ โ‰ค โ‰ฅ โ‰ฆ โ‰ง โ‰จ โ‰ฉ โ‰บ โ‰ป โ‰ผ โ‰ฝ โŠ โŠ โŠ‘ โŠ’ ยฒ ยณ ยฐ
โˆ  โˆŸ ยฐ โ‰… ~ โ€– โŸ‚ โซ›
โ‰ก โ‰œ โ‰ˆ โˆ โˆž โ‰ช โ‰ซ โŒŠโŒ‹ โŒˆโŒ‰ โˆ˜ โˆ โˆ โˆ‘ โˆง โˆจ โˆฉ โˆช โจ€ โŠ• โŠ— ๐–• ๐–– ๐–— โŠฒ โŠณ
โˆ… โˆ– โˆ โ†ฆ โ†ฃ โˆฉ โˆช โŠ† โŠ‚ โŠ„ โŠŠ โŠ‡ โŠƒ โŠ… โŠ‹ โŠ– โˆˆ โˆ‰ โˆ‹ โˆŒ โ„• โ„ค โ„š โ„ โ„‚ โ„ต โ„ถ โ„ท โ„ธ ๐“Ÿ
ยฌ โˆจ โˆง โŠ• โ†’ โ† โ‡’ โ‡ โ‡” โˆ€ โˆƒ โˆ„ โˆด โˆต โŠค โŠฅ โŠข โŠจ โซค โŠฃ โ€ฆ โ‹ฏ โ‹ฎ โ‹ฐ โ‹ฑ
โˆซ โˆฌ โˆญ โˆฎ โˆฏ โˆฐ โˆ‡ โˆ† ฮด โˆ‚ โ„ฑ โ„’ โ„“
๐›ข๐›ผ ๐›ฃ๐›ฝ ๐›ค๐›พ ๐›ฅ๐›ฟ ๐›ฆ๐œ€๐œ– ๐›ง๐œ ๐›จ๐œ‚ ๐›ฉ๐œƒ๐œ— ๐›ช๐œ„ ๐›ซ๐œ… ๐›ฌ๐œ† ๐›ญ๐œ‡ ๐›ฎ๐œˆ ๐›ฏ๐œ‰ ๐›ฐ๐œŠ ๐›ฑ๐œ‹ ๐›ฒ๐œŒ ๐›ด๐œŽ ๐›ต๐œ ๐›ถ๐œ ๐›ท๐œ™๐œ‘ ๐›ธ๐œ’ ๐›น๐œ“ ๐›บ๐œ”