20200311, 19:14  #23  
∂^{2}ω=0
Sep 2002
República de California
2·5,591 Posts 
Quote:
What's really needed  and also here in the US  is a universal postal savings bank. But the forprofit bank lobby is too strong. 

20200311, 19:17  #24 
6809 > 6502
"""""""""""""""""""
Aug 2003
101×103 Posts
2^{2}×3×11×61 Posts 

20200311, 20:33  #25 
Feb 2017
Nowhere
3,251 Posts 
03/09/20 close 23,851.02 2,013.76 (7.79%)
03/10/20 close 25,018.16 +1,167.14 (+4.89%) 03/11/20 close 23,553.22 1,464.94 (5.86%) 
20200311, 21:16  #26 
6809 > 6502
"""""""""""""""""""
Aug 2003
101×103 Posts
2^{2}·3·11·61 Posts 
Here is a view of the % day to day change in the Dow for the last ~6 months

20200311, 22:32  #27 
Feb 2017
Nowhere
3,251 Posts 

20200311, 23:42  #28 
Feb 2005
Colorado
3^{3}·17 Posts 

20200312, 02:04  #29  
Aug 2006
5860_{10} Posts 
Quote:
If you own one share of a company worth $1, and over 10 years the company doubles in value, your share is now worth $2. This is a real increase, and it's not zerosum  no one had to lose money. Similarly, if the company's factory burns down and it's now bankrupt, your share is worth $0, and this is a real decrease: no one gained your $2. 

20200312, 03:35  #30 
∂^{2}ω=0
Sep 2002
República de California
2×5,591 Posts 
Unless said share price increase was driven by debtfueled share buybacks, in which case today's share price increase comes at the expense of more debt on the company balance sheet and, typically, investment in R&D and real productivity increasers.

20200312, 05:21  #31 
"Curtis"
Feb 2005
Riverside, CA
2^{2}×3×349 Posts 
It's not helpful to bring up financial engineering to confuse the concept of stock ownership. It's a bit like arguing with someone explaining multiplication by constantly saying "that's not the answer in base 8!!!" While a valid claim, it's not doing anything to clarify the concept of whether share ownership is a zerosum game.
There are plenty of companies out there not engaging in financial engineering, share buybacks, etc. Pretend we're discussing how share prices work for one of those comanies, K? Also, thanks for reminding me why I usually avoid posting in the lounge. 
20200312, 05:47  #32 
Aug 2006
2^{2}·5·293 Posts 
We're not nearly at that level here. But if you're interested, the ModiglianiMiller theorem does show why it can be beneficial for companies to take on debt to buy back stock (hint: the conditions of the theorem are not satisfied!).

20200312, 09:22  #33 
Bamboozled!
May 2003
Down not across
2^{2}×41×61 Posts 

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