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Old 2007-03-31, 06:56   #12
cheesehead
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfgoode View Post
Well to define life I would say that its is the sum total of subtle energy which we have been unable to measure or detect as yet.

As it is a form of energy it can neither be created or destroyed.
If we haven't yet measured or detected that "subtle energy", on what basis do you state that it can't be created or destroyed?

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It merely is transformed from one state to the other.
If we haven't yet measured or detected that "subtle energy", on what basis do you declare that it has more than one state?
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Old 2007-03-31, 07:08   #13
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Originally Posted by petrw1 View Post
I refuse to believe it was created by a big bang, a chemical soup, random events
Evolution proceeds by random mutations, plus natural selection, which is not random. Any supposed description or definition of evolution that fails to mention natural selection is inaccurate and incomplete.
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If you search the Internet for "Intelligent Design" you will find many hits that sound pretty convincing to me.
The creationists'/IDers' arguments were designed (by humans) to be convincing to people who have not actually read, or do not understand, accurate and complete explanations of evolution written by evolutionists.

Try http://www.talkorigins.org/, especially

"The Talk.Origins Archive: Evolution FAQs -- Biology and Evolutionary Theory" at http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/faqs-evolution.html

"29+ Evidences for Macroevolution: The Scientific Case for Common Descent" at http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/

"An Index to Creationist Claims" at http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/

Last fiddled with by cheesehead on 2007-03-31 at 07:45
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Old 2007-03-31, 11:57   #14
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cheesehead,

In what ways, as you understand it, is natural selection not random? What predictive power does the theory bring to bear?
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Old 2007-03-31, 13:29   #15
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Originally Posted by Zeta-Flux View Post
In what ways, as you understand it, is natural selection not random?
So as not to wander farther off-topic here, I refer you to the second paragraph of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution or the article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_selection, and ask that further discussion be in the "Evolution: The Scientific Evidence" thread at http://mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=6326.

Quote:
What predictive power does the theory bring to bear?
See bulleted list under "3. Evolution has been ... on page http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA210.html

Further discussion: in the "Evolution: The Scientific Evidence" thread at http://mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=6326.
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Old 2007-04-01, 15:22   #16
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Is anyone else seeing the entire text of the board now in a sort of a "strike through" form where a line is drawn through every word in every topic in every form?
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Old 2007-04-01, 17:07   #17
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I think it is someone's twisted idea of an April Fools' joke...
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Old 2007-04-03, 16:43   #18
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Lightbulb Subtle Energy!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheesehead View Post
If we haven't yet measured or detected that "subtle energy", on what basis do you state that it can't be created or destroyed?

If we haven't yet measured or detected that "subtle energy", on what basis do you declare that it has more than one state?


This was part of my scriptural reading and commentary today.

' Although many writers and philosophers have done their best to marshal weighty arguments in favour of life after death, they have not succeeded in bringing comfort to aching, anxious questioning hearts.

Jesus, however does not fail to satisfy us.

He does not try to prove the reasonableness of immortality; He simply declares it! He speaks of what He knows and answers with the authority of heaven:

"I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may *die* ( evolutionary death), he shall live" John 11:25.

This resurrection has two aspects. The bodies of *believers* will be raised, and their spirits will also live on in heaven.

Well all those who are not believers of Christ shall die the physcial death and true to evolution will turn into dust as the theory predicts.

You are free to choose !

Mally
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Old 2007-04-03, 17:19   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfgoode View Post
Well all those who are not believers of Christ shall die the physcial death and true to evolution will turn into dust as the theory predicts.

You are free to choose !

Mally
Well, Mally, we are friends.

Suppose that I am a scientist, and don't believe in God because in my short life I didn't find Him out. Do you think I deserve eternal flames just because my mind is too logic, or my heart has not been touched by Jesus, or my interests were more oriented towards human wealth with my discoveries, than my own soul?

I'm sure, depending by you knowing me, that you would save me, behaving in this as a more merciful individual than God Himself...

That's the fallacy of faith.

Luigi

Last fiddled with by ET_ on 2007-04-03 at 17:22
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Old 2007-04-03, 17:26   #20
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Luigi, I think the way it is thought of is more like this, "God loves humanity, but that doesn't mean God doesn't think we deserve a punishment if we do something wrong". I know people hate the analogy and invariably come up with the same problem with it, but it's like a parent punishing a child. Your parents don't stop loving you just becaus they punish you. Also, the reason Hell is a fitting punishment is very simple. There's no other proper punishment, truly, for an immortal soul except eternal punishment, just like no punishment that's forever is appropriate for a human because humans are finite. BTW, before anyone gets the idea, the death penalty is not a forever kind of punishmet. That would be dying forever, over and over, not once.
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Old 2007-04-03, 18:04   #21
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Thumbs up Hell- a state!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ET_ View Post
Well, Mally, we are friends.

Suppose that I am a scientist, and don't believe in God because in my short life I didn't find Him out. Do you think I deserve eternal flames just because my mind is too logic, or my heart has not been touched by Jesus, or my interests were more oriented towards human wealth with my discoveries, than my own soul?

I'm sure, depending by you knowing me, that you would save me, behaving in this as a more merciful individual than God Himself...

That's the fallacy of faith.

Luigi


Well Luigi,

What I wrote was a commentary on the passage by a Dr. M.D DeHaan

Eternal flames is a fallacy and so is everlasting punishment.

Else where it is written that one will be judged by ones works.

This applies to non believers and after much study I have come to believe that hell is an eternal state too but not eternal flames. Eternal flames is a purification stage in life after death. The real Hell is a bottomless Pit reserved only for Satan and his followers which they will be cast down into eventually.

I am writing ad lib and have no references right now.

Please dont worry about your materialistic life. If you have given a cup of water to some deserving and thirsty person you have given it to Christ. If you have done some good works for others you have done it to Christ.

My personal experience is that Christ is a very mystical person. You cant see Him but he is always there by your side-ALWAYS.

He says 'I will never leave you nor forsake you'

Like you, I have often thought of the millions in India who have never even heard the name of Jesus. Whats in it for them? Are they condemned in oblivion? Not at all!. Christ is in everything and every human being.

Jesus boiled the 10 rigorous commandments to just 2.
1) Love God
2) Love your neighbour.

If you have loved your neighbour you have loved Christ.

When I say Christ I mean the mystical Jesus and He is the personification of love.

What the humble and sublime Christ wants is an acknowledgement.

He has clearly said 'If you acknowledge Me I will acknowledge you to the Everlasting Father. If You deny me I will deny you to the Father.'

Is that too difficult for anyone.?

Mally
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Old 2007-04-03, 19:03   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfgoode View Post
Is that too difficult for anyone.?

Mally
I can't speak for anyone, it's clear for me.

But it's a matter of ethics, not religion. In my opinion, Jesus speech drives the audience towards an ethical path, not a religious one.

Ths is why I consider nothing the Church, or anyone who tries to speak and make decisions for me, in my name.

From an ethical point of view, Christ said "If you ethically live your life, you'll have on Earth a thousand times what you gave". Only after He mentions "and the Promise of life after death"

But I don't think this post should be driven by Religion: the very question is "what happens after our deaths?"

The very answer is "We just don't and can't know".

Game over...

Luigi
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