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Old 2014-01-09, 15:58   #1
R.D. Silverman
 
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Default Christie Guilty of Murder?

It is all over the news and I will not summarize the facts that have
been stated so far.

However, I do note that an EMS call to a woman in cardiac distress
was delayed by the traffic jam. She later died in the hospital.

Whether Christie knew about the deliberately caused traffic jam
is as yet to be determined.

However, it is clear that his aids did cause the problem as political
retribution.

IMO, his aids and whomever in the Port Authority are responsible for
the mess should be tried for 2nd degree murder. That a traffic jam
might delay EMS is a foreseeable consequence of their actions. That
someone might die is also a foreseeable consequence.

At the very least, there will be a very large lawsuit against the Port
Authority and Christie's aids.

Whether Christie also deserves to be charged remains to be seen.

Comments?
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Old 2014-01-09, 16:57   #2
xilman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R.D. Silverman View Post
It is all over the news and I will not summarize the facts that have been stated so far.

....

Comments?
Who is Christie?

It's not all over the news where I live.


Another question for you: was Duggan executed?
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Old 2014-01-09, 17:20   #3
R.D. Silverman
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xilman View Post
Who is Christie?

It's not all over the news where I live.


Another question for you: was Duggan executed?
Chris Christie is governor of New Jersey. He is also a leading
presidential candidate for the Republiguns in the next election.

It is now crystal clear that his aids, with the complicity of
people in the New York Port Authority deliberately caused
a traffic jam in Fort Lee New Jersey as an act of political
retribution. The retribution was for the Mayor of Fort Lee not
giving a political endorsement to Christie. There are emails
between Christie's aids and the Port Authority that make this clear.

There is also a public letter from the EMS to the Port Authority
in which they complained about the traffic jam possibly contributing
to the death of a woman. (for failure for an ambulance to reach her
on time).

I understand that there were other ambulance delays as well. The
extent of what happened in those cases is yet TBD.

Now:

(1) *IF* causing the traffic jam was a criminal act (there is no doubt
in my mind, but my legal knowledge is limited here and I am not sure
as to which law is relevant)

(2) *IF* the traffic jam contributed to the death of someone

Then I believe this meets the definition of "felony murder", i.e. a death
occured as the direct result of a criminal act.

I also think that "felony murder" counts as 1st degree, rather than 2nd
degree murder. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

Whether Christie was involved we do not know. He denies any knowledge.
But it is certainly possible that he suggested to his aids that they should
"get retribution" without suggesting how.

His aids, if faced with criminal charges may loosen their tongues in the
event that Christie was involved.

I make no judgment about Christie at this time. I will take his denials
at face value until proven otherwise.

I have no facts regarding whether Duggan was "executed".

The emails clearly show Christie's staff to be guilty, as well as the
Port Authority.

Lawsuits, here we come.
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Old 2014-01-09, 17:26   #4
ATH
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(nm was too late)

Last fiddled with by ATH on 2014-01-09 at 17:26
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Old 2014-01-09, 17:36   #5
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Are there ambulances in Fort Lee that could have taken the woman to a hospital in Fort Lee (assuming there is one) that would have avoided the traffic delay?
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Old 2014-01-09, 17:41   #6
R.D. Silverman
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogue View Post
Are there ambulances in Fort Lee that could have taken the woman to a hospital in Fort Lee (assuming there is one) that would have avoided the traffic delay?
I certainly have no idea. However, an ambulance was called, and it was
delayed.

Unless the ambulance dispatchers knew of the delay ahead of time
and could have rerouted the ambulance, or called an ambulance from
a different source location, I do not know.

Once the delay happened, calling for a different ambulance would also
involve a delay.

I also think that speculating about "what might have been" is not useful.

Last fiddled with by R.D. Silverman on 2014-01-09 at 17:42 Reason: Added one more sentence.
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Old 2014-01-09, 18:31   #7
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I doubt that there could be any criminal charges as a result. His aides certainly (and if more evidence--like the Nixon tapes) surface implicating Christie in the scandal he is probably open to tort liability.

If I have some time, I'll probably look into it further.

for your perusal:

http://casebrief.me/casebriefs/bird-v-jones/
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Old 2014-01-09, 18:53   #8
R.D. Silverman
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chappy View Post
I doubt that there could be any criminal charges as a result. His aides certainly (and if more evidence--like the Nixon tapes) surface implicating Christie in the scandal he is probably open to tort liability.

If I have some time, I'll probably look into it further.

for your perusal:

http://casebrief.me/casebriefs/bird-v-jones/
I see no relevance for this reference. The problem here is not the partial
obstruction of the traffic of ordinary citizens. That indeed may not be criminal.
(I don't know the relevant law). What matters is the critical delay of official
emergency response vehicles.

While charges may not actually happen, there is no doubt in my mind
that the actions of his aids were criminal in nature.

Last fiddled with by R.D. Silverman on 2014-01-09 at 18:59 Reason: modification
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Old 2014-01-09, 19:00   #9
rogue
 
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Someone lost their job over this: Christie Fires Aide, Apologizes for Traffic Jams
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Old 2014-01-09, 19:06   #10
R.D. Silverman
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogue View Post
Someone lost their job over this: Christie Fires Aide, Apologizes for Traffic Jams
A mere slap on the wrist.
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Old 2014-01-09, 19:11   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R.D. Silverman View Post
A mere slap on the wrist.
I feel a song coming on:

He's beginning to look a lot like Nixon,
everywhere he goes.......
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