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2008-11-13, 16:42   #89
xilman
Bamboozled!

"𒉺𒌌𒇷𒆷𒀭"
May 2003
Down not across

22·7·17·23 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by R.D. Silverman Yet another impossible/unbelievable claim from a crank.
Yet another misunderstanding of a commonly made simplification. One which I've used on occasion when the meaning is clear and one which I've heard from other active users of NFS.

Raman almost certainly means "the special-q which lie in a range of 1.2 million". One prime in 33 is a reasonable figure for the density of special-q in a "typical" sieving region.

Ok, his statement wasn't precise but I think you should have been able to work out what he meant without any difficulty and could have been rather more polite in drawing his attention to the possibility of his statement misleading others.

Paul

2008-11-14, 12:50   #90
R.D. Silverman

Nov 2003

164448 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by xilman Yet another misunderstanding of a commonly made simplification. One which I've used on occasion when the meaning is clear and one which I've heard from other active users of NFS. Raman almost certainly means "the special-q which lie in a range of 1.2 million". One prime in 33 is a reasonable figure for the density of special-q in a "typical" sieving region. Ok, his statement wasn't precise but I think you should have been able to work out what he meant without any difficulty and could have been rather more polite in drawing his attention to the possibility of his statement misleading others. Paul
Once again:

It is not the duty of a reader to "work out" what is meant.
When one makes a mathematical statement in a public forum, it is the
obligation of the author to clearly state what is meant.

There is a big difference between

1.2 million special q

and

special q in a range of length 1.2 million.

I assume that if one means the latter, then one will write the latter and
not the former. I assume that people mean what they say (or write).
To me, not to do so is disrespectful. It would mean that either the
person is too stupid to accurately convey his meaning *or* that he is
too lazy and sloppy to be bothered. Either assumption is an insult.

Last fiddled with by R.D. Silverman on 2008-11-14 at 12:51 Reason: fix typo/spelling

2008-11-14, 13:38   #91
rogue

"Mark"
Apr 2003
Between here and the

144338 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by R.D. Silverman Once again: It is not the duty of a reader to "work out" what is meant. When one makes a mathematical statement in a public forum, it is the obligation of the author to clearly state what is meant. There is a big difference between 1.2 million special q and special q in a range of length 1.2 million. I assume that if one means the latter, then one will write the latter and not the former. I assume that people mean what they say (or write). To me, not to do so is disrespectful. It would mean that either the person is too stupid to accurately convey his meaning *or* that he is too lazy and sloppy to be bothered. Either assumption is an insult.
I disagree with you Bob. Raman's might not be fluent enough in English (if it isn't his native tongue). All of us have seen bad translations, some of them quite humorous. It is possible (I don't know if he is fluent in English or what his native tongue is) that it makes sense to him when he translates back into his native tongue, but doesn't make sense to us.

Also, this is a public forum of which math is only one part of, not a journal subject to peer review or a private math forum. IMO, the proper response would have been to ask Raman to clarify his statement because it was confusing. Instead you immediately attack him as a crank. Granted there are some people on this forum who write rather incredulous or just plain stupid things on a frequent basis. I'm certain that they rank high on your crank-o-meter. I haven't put Raman is in that category.

2008-11-14, 15:48   #92
R.D. Silverman

Nov 2003

22×5×373 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by rogue I disagree with you Bob. Raman's might not be fluent enough in English (if it isn't his native tongue). All of us have seen bad translations, some of them quite humorous. It is possible (I don't know if he is fluent in English or what his native tongue is) that it makes sense to him when he translates back into his native tongue, but doesn't make sense to us. Also, this is a public forum of which math is only one part of, not a journal subject to peer review or a private math forum. IMO, the proper response would have been to ask Raman to clarify his statement because it was confusing. Instead you immediately attack him as a crank. Granted there are some people on this forum who write rather incredulous or just plain stupid things on a frequent basis. I'm certain that they rank high on your crank-o-meter. I haven't put Raman is in that category.
I assume that you weren't the victim of many months of daily mail bombs
from Raman; hundreds of junk mails per day containing total gibberish.....

Have you read his prior efforts on this forum??????

Peut etre vous voudrais parler en francais?

 2008-12-08, 07:20 #93 frmky     Jul 2003 So Cal 22·547 Posts 10,287- is done. Here's the log: Code: Mon Nov 10 21:44:01 2008 Msieve v. 1.38 Mon Nov 10 21:44:01 2008 random seeds: 8f4b6e77 241acd48 Mon Nov 10 21:44:01 2008 factoring 20126044953446465498628017355429781454947611138799299869415474428303759336392201057473088367031192277123721763741349447238767164079624055237241609803442136356461466722803384508668805269754642914396850180213735249 (212 digits) Mon Nov 10 21:44:04 2008 no P-1/P+1/ECM available, skipping Mon Nov 10 21:44:04 2008 commencing number field sieve (212-digit input) Mon Nov 10 21:44:04 2008 R0: -100000000000000000000000000000000000000000 Mon Nov 10 21:44:04 2008 R1: 1 Mon Nov 10 21:44:04 2008 A0: 1 Mon Nov 10 21:44:04 2008 A1: 1 Mon Nov 10 21:44:04 2008 A2: 1 Mon Nov 10 21:44:04 2008 A3: 1 Mon Nov 10 21:44:04 2008 A4: 1 Mon Nov 10 21:44:04 2008 A5: 1 Mon Nov 10 21:44:04 2008 A6: 1 Mon Nov 10 21:44:04 2008 size score = 8.842478e-12, Murphy alpha = 2.427706, combined = 4.419103e-12 Mon Nov 10 21:44:04 2008 Mon Nov 10 21:44:04 2008 commencing relation filtering Mon Nov 10 21:44:04 2008 commencing duplicate removal, pass 1 ... relation errors snipped ... Mon Nov 10 22:03:22 2008 found 13194370 hash collisions in 91907293 relations Mon Nov 10 22:03:22 2008 commencing duplicate removal, pass 2 Mon Nov 10 22:06:41 2008 found 1017462 duplicates and 90889831 unique relations Mon Nov 10 22:06:41 2008 memory use: 504.8 MB Mon Nov 10 22:06:41 2008 reading rational ideals above 50003968 Mon Nov 10 22:06:41 2008 reading algebraic ideals above 50003968 Mon Nov 10 22:06:41 2008 commencing singleton removal, pass 1 Mon Nov 10 22:26:48 2008 relations with 0 large ideals: 873143 Mon Nov 10 22:26:48 2008 relations with 1 large ideals: 3379758 Mon Nov 10 22:26:48 2008 relations with 2 large ideals: 12876690 Mon Nov 10 22:26:48 2008 relations with 3 large ideals: 26772739 Mon Nov 10 22:26:48 2008 relations with 4 large ideals: 29583128 Mon Nov 10 22:26:48 2008 relations with 5 large ideals: 14987883 Mon Nov 10 22:26:48 2008 relations with 6 large ideals: 448108 Mon Nov 10 22:26:48 2008 relations with 7+ large ideals: 1968382 Mon Nov 10 22:26:48 2008 90889831 relations and about 62412552 large ideals Mon Nov 10 22:26:48 2008 commencing singleton removal, pass 2 Mon Nov 10 22:46:55 2008 found 14403513 singletons Mon Nov 10 22:46:55 2008 current dataset: 76486318 relations and about 47022077 large ideals Mon Nov 10 22:46:55 2008 commencing singleton removal, pass 3 Mon Nov 10 23:04:25 2008 relations with 0 large ideals: 873143 Mon Nov 10 23:04:25 2008 relations with 1 large ideals: 3218924 Mon Nov 10 23:04:25 2008 relations with 2 large ideals: 11639352 Mon Nov 10 23:04:25 2008 relations with 3 large ideals: 22965625 Mon Nov 10 23:04:25 2008 relations with 4 large ideals: 24008263 Mon Nov 10 23:04:25 2008 relations with 5 large ideals: 11515062 Mon Nov 10 23:04:25 2008 relations with 6 large ideals: 341885 Mon Nov 10 23:04:25 2008 relations with 7+ large ideals: 1924064 Mon Nov 10 23:04:25 2008 76486318 relations and about 59049760 large ideals Mon Nov 10 23:04:25 2008 commencing singleton removal, pass 4 Mon Nov 10 23:21:55 2008 found 11860075 singletons Mon Nov 10 23:21:55 2008 current dataset: 64626243 relations and about 46394911 large ideals Mon Nov 10 23:21:55 2008 commencing singleton removal, pass 5 Mon Nov 10 23:37:07 2008 found 2397232 singletons Mon Nov 10 23:37:07 2008 current dataset: 62229011 relations and about 43959616 large ideals Mon Nov 10 23:37:07 2008 commencing singleton removal, pass 6 Mon Nov 10 23:51:48 2008 found 435595 singletons Mon Nov 10 23:51:48 2008 current dataset: 61793416 relations and about 43522630 large ideals Mon Nov 10 23:51:49 2008 commencing singleton removal, final pass Tue Nov 11 00:18:52 2008 memory use: 1269.9 MB Tue Nov 11 00:18:52 2008 commencing in-memory singleton removal Tue Nov 11 00:19:07 2008 begin with 61793416 relations and 50482201 unique ideals Tue Nov 11 00:24:05 2008 reduce to 55396388 relations and 43935663 ideals in 16 passes Tue Nov 11 00:24:05 2008 max relations containing the same ideal: 30 Tue Nov 11 00:24:24 2008 reading rational ideals above 720000 Tue Nov 11 00:24:24 2008 reading algebraic ideals above 720000 Tue Nov 11 00:24:24 2008 commencing singleton removal, final pass Tue Nov 11 01:18:12 2008 keeping 46141288 ideals with weight <= 20, new excess is 3796548 Tue Nov 11 01:20:21 2008 memory use: 1851.0 MB Tue Nov 11 01:20:21 2008 commencing in-memory singleton removal Tue Nov 11 01:20:36 2008 begin with 55396461 relations and 46141288 unique ideals Tue Nov 11 01:21:39 2008 reduce to 55396428 relations and 46141245 ideals in 3 passes Tue Nov 11 01:21:39 2008 max relations containing the same ideal: 20 Tue Nov 11 01:23:14 2008 removing 2947481 relations and 2547481 ideals in 400000 cliques Tue Nov 11 01:23:19 2008 commencing in-memory singleton removal Tue Nov 11 01:23:36 2008 begin with 52448947 relations and 46141245 unique ideals Tue Nov 11 01:25:51 2008 reduce to 52365553 relations and 43509601 ideals in 7 passes Tue Nov 11 01:25:51 2008 max relations containing the same ideal: 20 Tue Nov 11 01:27:21 2008 removing 2182039 relations and 1782039 ideals in 400000 cliques Tue Nov 11 01:27:26 2008 commencing in-memory singleton removal Tue Nov 11 01:27:39 2008 begin with 50183514 relations and 43509601 unique ideals Tue Nov 11 01:29:33 2008 reduce to 50131107 relations and 41674734 ideals in 6 passes Tue Nov 11 01:29:33 2008 max relations containing the same ideal: 20 Tue Nov 11 01:30:58 2008 removing 1937709 relations and 1537709 ideals in 400000 cliques Tue Nov 11 01:31:03 2008 commencing in-memory singleton removal Tue Nov 11 01:31:15 2008 begin with 48193398 relations and 41674734 unique ideals Tue Nov 11 01:33:22 2008 reduce to 48148281 relations and 40091558 ideals in 7 passes Tue Nov 11 01:33:22 2008 max relations containing the same ideal: 20 Tue Nov 11 01:34:43 2008 removing 1794226 relations and 1394226 ideals in 400000 cliques Tue Nov 11 01:34:46 2008 commencing in-memory singleton removal Tue Nov 11 01:34:59 2008 begin with 46354055 relations and 40091558 unique ideals Tue Nov 11 01:36:44 2008 reduce to 46311786 relations and 38654726 ideals in 6 passes Tue Nov 11 01:36:44 2008 max relations containing the same ideal: 20 Tue Nov 11 01:38:02 2008 removing 1703623 relations and 1303623 ideals in 400000 cliques Tue Nov 11 01:38:06 2008 commencing in-memory singleton removal Tue Nov 11 01:38:18 2008 begin with 44608163 relations and 38654726 unique ideals Tue Nov 11 01:39:56 2008 reduce to 44567089 relations and 37309709 ideals in 6 passes Tue Nov 11 01:39:56 2008 max relations containing the same ideal: 20 Tue Nov 11 01:41:11 2008 removing 1639485 relations and 1239485 ideals in 400000 cliques Tue Nov 11 01:41:14 2008 commencing in-memory singleton removal Tue Nov 11 01:41:27 2008 begin with 42927604 relations and 37309709 unique ideals Tue Nov 11 01:43:01 2008 reduce to 42887160 relations and 36029452 ideals in 6 passes Tue Nov 11 01:43:01 2008 max relations containing the same ideal: 20 Tue Nov 11 01:44:13 2008 removing 1590353 relations and 1190353 ideals in 400000 cliques Tue Nov 11 01:44:15 2008 commencing in-memory singleton removal Tue Nov 11 01:44:27 2008 begin with 41296807 relations and 36029452 unique ideals Tue Nov 11 01:45:58 2008 reduce to 41257865 relations and 34799805 ideals in 6 passes Tue Nov 11 01:45:58 2008 max relations containing the same ideal: 20 Tue Nov 11 01:47:08 2008 removing 1546307 relations and 1146307 ideals in 400000 cliques Tue Nov 11 01:47:10 2008 commencing in-memory singleton removal Tue Nov 11 01:47:23 2008 begin with 39711558 relations and 34799805 unique ideals Tue Nov 11 01:48:50 2008 reduce to 39670600 relations and 33612182 ideals in 6 passes Tue Nov 11 01:48:50 2008 max relations containing the same ideal: 20 Tue Nov 11 01:49:54 2008 removing 1519503 relations and 1119503 ideals in 400000 cliques Tue Nov 11 01:49:58 2008 commencing in-memory singleton removal Tue Nov 11 01:50:09 2008 begin with 38151097 relations and 33612182 unique ideals Tue Nov 11 01:51:31 2008 reduce to 38108339 relations and 32449537 ideals in 6 passes Tue Nov 11 01:51:31 2008 max relations containing the same ideal: 20 Tue Nov 11 01:52:35 2008 removing 1496184 relations and 1096184 ideals in 400000 cliques Tue Nov 11 01:52:38 2008 commencing in-memory singleton removal Tue Nov 11 01:52:48 2008 begin with 36612155 relations and 32449537 unique ideals Tue Nov 11 01:54:07 2008 reduce to 36567059 relations and 31307831 ideals in 6 passes Tue Nov 11 01:54:07 2008 max relations containing the same ideal: 20 Tue Nov 11 01:55:09 2008 removing 1482433 relations and 1082433 ideals in 400000 cliques Tue Nov 11 01:55:11 2008 commencing in-memory singleton removal Tue Nov 11 01:55:23 2008 begin with 35084626 relations and 31307831 unique ideals Tue Nov 11 01:56:38 2008 reduce to 35037500 relations and 30177776 ideals in 6 passes Tue Nov 11 01:56:38 2008 max relations containing the same ideal: 20 Tue Nov 11 01:57:36 2008 removing 1472872 relations and 1072872 ideals in 400000 cliques Tue Nov 11 01:57:38 2008 commencing in-memory singleton removal Tue Nov 11 01:57:49 2008 begin with 33564628 relations and 30177776 unique ideals Tue Nov 11 01:59:01 2008 reduce to 33513783 relations and 29053509 ideals in 6 passes Tue Nov 11 01:59:01 2008 max relations containing the same ideal: 20 Tue Nov 11 01:59:56 2008 removing 284668 relations and 228390 ideals in 56278 cliques Tue Nov 11 01:59:58 2008 commencing in-memory singleton removal Tue Nov 11 02:00:09 2008 begin with 33229115 relations and 29053509 unique ideals Tue Nov 11 02:00:55 2008 reduce to 33227540 relations and 28823541 ideals in 4 passes Tue Nov 11 02:00:55 2008 max relations containing the same ideal: 20 Tue Nov 11 02:01:11 2008 relations with 0 large ideals: 321908 Tue Nov 11 02:01:11 2008 relations with 1 large ideals: 1206714 Tue Nov 11 02:01:11 2008 relations with 2 large ideals: 4482921 Tue Nov 11 02:01:11 2008 relations with 3 large ideals: 8827594 Tue Nov 11 02:01:11 2008 relations with 4 large ideals: 9567269 Tue Nov 11 02:01:11 2008 relations with 5 large ideals: 5689153 Tue Nov 11 02:01:11 2008 relations with 6 large ideals: 1740071 Tue Nov 11 02:01:11 2008 relations with 7+ large ideals: 1391910 Tue Nov 11 02:01:11 2008 commencing 2-way merge Tue Nov 11 02:02:20 2008 reduce to 23999301 relation sets and 19595301 unique ideals Tue Nov 11 02:02:20 2008 commencing full merge Tue Nov 11 02:17:29 2008 memory use: 1926.5 MB Tue Nov 11 02:17:40 2008 found 12232120 cycles, need 11625501 Tue Nov 11 02:17:56 2008 weight of 11625501 cycles is about 814043256 (70.02/cycle) Tue Nov 11 02:17:56 2008 distribution of cycle lengths: Tue Nov 11 02:17:56 2008 1 relations: 1180049 Tue Nov 11 02:17:56 2008 2 relations: 1364624 Tue Nov 11 02:17:56 2008 3 relations: 1485146 Tue Nov 11 02:17:56 2008 4 relations: 1413021 Tue Nov 11 02:17:56 2008 5 relations: 1300672 Tue Nov 11 02:17:56 2008 6 relations: 1134595 Tue Nov 11 02:17:56 2008 7 relations: 969223 Tue Nov 11 02:17:56 2008 8 relations: 804803 Tue Nov 11 02:17:56 2008 9 relations: 651754 Tue Nov 11 02:17:56 2008 10+ relations: 1321614 Tue Nov 11 02:17:56 2008 heaviest cycle: 17 relations Tue Nov 11 02:18:04 2008 commencing cycle optimization Tue Nov 11 02:19:21 2008 start with 61033420 relations Tue Nov 11 02:31:54 2008 pruned 1834615 relations Tue Nov 11 02:31:57 2008 memory use: 1951.0 MB Tue Nov 11 02:31:57 2008 distribution of cycle lengths: Tue Nov 11 02:31:57 2008 1 relations: 1180049 Tue Nov 11 02:31:57 2008 2 relations: 1398906 Tue Nov 11 02:31:57 2008 3 relations: 1550499 Tue Nov 11 02:31:57 2008 4 relations: 1463809 Tue Nov 11 02:31:57 2008 5 relations: 1350767 Tue Nov 11 02:31:57 2008 6 relations: 1164868 Tue Nov 11 02:31:57 2008 7 relations: 987404 Tue Nov 11 02:31:57 2008 8 relations: 803296 Tue Nov 11 02:31:57 2008 9 relations: 633809 Tue Nov 11 02:31:57 2008 10+ relations: 1092094 Tue Nov 11 02:31:57 2008 heaviest cycle: 16 relations Tue Nov 11 02:33:01 2008 Tue Nov 11 02:33:15 2008 commencing linear algebra Tue Nov 11 02:33:18 2008 read 11625501 cycles Tue Nov 11 02:38:03 2008 cycles contain 31406379 unique relations Tue Nov 11 02:45:21 2008 read 31406379 relations Tue Nov 11 02:48:20 2008 using 32 quadratic characters above 1073741720 Tue Nov 11 02:55:57 2008 building initial matrix Tue Nov 11 03:22:46 2008 memory use: 4007.0 MB Tue Nov 11 03:23:03 2008 read 11625501 cycles Tue Nov 11 03:23:21 2008 matrix is 11625245 x 11625501 (3481.3 MB) with weight 1075025815 (92.47/col) Tue Nov 11 03:23:21 2008 sparse part has weight 784719819 (67.50/col) Tue Nov 11 03:38:55 2008 filtering completed in 3 passes Tue Nov 11 03:39:02 2008 matrix is 11605323 x 11605523 (3479.2 MB) with weight 1074223085 (92.56/col) Tue Nov 11 03:39:02 2008 sparse part has weight 784396726 (67.59/col) Tue Nov 11 03:42:05 2008 read 11605523 cycles Tue Nov 11 03:42:23 2008 matrix is 11605323 x 11605523 (3479.2 MB) with weight 1074223085 (92.56/col) Tue Nov 11 03:42:23 2008 sparse part has weight 784396726 (67.59/col) Tue Nov 11 03:42:24 2008 saving the first 48 matrix rows for later Tue Nov 11 03:42:40 2008 matrix is 11605275 x 11605523 (3337.4 MB) with weight 830771297 (71.58/col) Tue Nov 11 03:42:40 2008 sparse part has weight 758833333 (65.39/col) Tue Nov 11 03:42:40 2008 matrix includes 64 packed rows Tue Nov 11 03:42:40 2008 using block size 65536 for processor cache size 2048 kB Tue Nov 11 03:44:24 2008 commencing Lanczos iteration (8 threads) Tue Nov 11 03:44:24 2008 memory use: 3893.5 MB Sun Dec 7 13:59:44 2008 lanczos halted after 183512 iterations (dim = 11605273) Sun Dec 7 14:00:36 2008 recovered 50 nontrivial dependencies Sun Dec 7 14:00:37 2008 Sun Dec 7 14:00:37 2008 commencing square root phase Sun Dec 7 14:00:37 2008 reading relations for dependency 1 Sun Dec 7 14:00:42 2008 read 5802291 cycles Sun Dec 7 14:02:32 2008 cycles contain 19657467 unique relations Sun Dec 7 14:07:32 2008 read 19657467 relations Sun Dec 7 14:15:53 2008 multiplying 15700252 relations Sun Dec 7 15:30:32 2008 multiply complete, coefficients have about 395.80 million bits Sun Dec 7 15:30:59 2008 initial square root is modulo 12643487 Sun Dec 7 17:36:17 2008 reading relations for dependency 2 Sun Dec 7 17:36:21 2008 read 5804179 cycles Sun Dec 7 17:38:12 2008 cycles contain 19660470 unique relations Sun Dec 7 17:43:12 2008 read 19660470 relations Sun Dec 7 17:51:40 2008 multiplying 15702896 relations Sun Dec 7 19:07:03 2008 multiply complete, coefficients have about 395.86 million bits Sun Dec 7 19:07:31 2008 initial square root is modulo 12679273 Sun Dec 7 21:12:35 2008 prp72 factor: 386736023165016911595773048286586040278275120007787504683197800313250373 Sun Dec 7 21:12:35 2008 prp140 factor: 52040781690664633087476019587971179912361405549597272673699110341655196644796952133433276282056803909903743017483300968477469368178954534813 Sun Dec 7 21:12:35 2008 elapsed time 647:28:34
2008-12-08, 12:09   #94
R.D. Silverman

Nov 2003

22×5×373 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by frmky 10,287- is done. Here's the log:
Very nice.

I have started the linear algebra for 2,836+. The matrix has
7.4M columns and should take about 39 days. I am using the CWI
solver which is only single threaded and is slower than msieve even
when msieve only uses a single thread. The matrix barely fits
on my 2Gb machine.

I have also started sieving for 7,277+. I will almost certainly need
someone else to do its LA. I simply don't have a machine that I
can use that has enough memory.

2008-12-08, 12:15   #95
xilman
Bamboozled!

"𒉺𒌌𒇷𒆷𒀭"
May 2003
Down not across

2AC416 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by R.D. Silverman I have also started sieving for 7,277+. I will almost certainly need someone else to do its LA. I simply don't have a machine that I can use that has enough memory.
It seems likely that I will be able to provide.

Paul

2009-04-17, 21:35   #96
frmky

Jul 2003
So Cal

1000100011002 Posts

11,244+ is complete. Per request, the log is attached rather than placed in code tags.

Greg
Attached Files
 11p244.txt (41.7 KB, 502 views)

2009-04-17, 22:44   #97
Xyzzy

Aug 2002

24·3·173 Posts

Quote:
 Per request, the log is attached rather than placed in code tags.

 2009-04-17, 22:50 #98 Batalov     "Serge" Mar 2008 Phi(4,2^7658614+1)/2 255A16 Posts ...but shame on you for not zipping it! You gotta think green! Congratulations!

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