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Old 2007-08-28, 18:17   #1
gd_barnes
 
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Default k=5 and policy on reservations

To all RPS folks,

I think it's time for us to start a distributed effort to test k=5 starting at n=470K. What does everyone think? I think we've given Phil WAY too much time. The last prime was found at n=350028 in May 2004, over 3 years ago! Were actually in danger of having no primes for k=5 in the top-5000! It's doing a dis-service to RPS here to let the reservation go any further. On Proth's, exponents of 819739, 1282755, 1320487, and 1777515 have already been found as prime. :surprised We're getting left in the dust!

I think we need to institute a site policy. If your k or k's are reserved for 6 months with no activity, then they will be unreserved after a reasonable attempt at contact, regardless of how active you are elsewhere in the prime-searching community. Otherwise we end up with 'orphan' k's like this where others end up finding primes on them before we do because we waited too long.

My reasoning for suggesting the policy is that many others like Benson search k's right out from under us without bothering to coordinate with us first. I think we are VERY lucky that someone hasn't started searching k=5 starting at n=470K. Tests go fast for such a low k and this one is ripe for getting 'picked off' by someone from another effort.

We have to find a happy medium between upsetting long-term prime-searchers in our effort by having their k's unreserved -and- risking allowing other efforts to 'pick off' primes on our reserved k's. I think 6 months is that happy medium. It is my thinking that few people will be upset if their k's are unreserved after 6 months of non-activity. Some (actually most) people probably won't even be aware that they are still reserved.


Gary

Last fiddled with by gd_barnes on 2007-08-28 at 18:19
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Old 2007-08-28, 19:47   #2
Flatlander
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I agree.
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Old 2007-08-29, 02:14   #3
MooooMoo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gd_barnes View Post
To all RPS folks,

I think it's time for us to start a distributed effort to test k=5 starting at n=470K. What does everyone think? I think we've given Phil WAY too much time.
Agreed.

Quote:
I think we are VERY lucky that someone hasn't started searching k=5 starting at n=470K.
Someone probably has, but that person hasn't found primes beyond 350028 yet.
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Old 2007-08-29, 05:56   #4
VBCurtis
 
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I have already begun sieving it, in the hopes Phil would reply to my email and release this k. I'll be happy to post some files when the sieve is deep enough, but this will take a few weeks. I haven't done much sieving (1T or so), but I can get it reasonably high within a few weeks, after 105 is done for another RPS distributed search.

I've posted my interest in reserving this k in other threads in the past, and would like some control in the search. I'll be happy to share smaller files under 1M to get it "caught up", though.

-Curtis
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Old 2007-08-29, 17:13   #5
gd_barnes
 
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Default OK, let's go! Clarifying 6-month rule.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VBCurtis View Post
I have already begun sieving it, in the hopes Phil would reply to my email and release this k. I'll be happy to post some files when the sieve is deep enough, but this will take a few weeks. I haven't done much sieving (1T or so), but I can get it reasonably high within a few weeks, after 105 is done for another RPS distributed search.

I've posted my interest in reserving this k in other threads in the past, and would like some control in the search. I'll be happy to share smaller files under 1M to get it "caught up", though.

-Curtis
Curtis,

Outstanding! Sounds great to me. I and I'm sure others have seen your interest in other posts so if you want to control it, I'm good with that. On a relatively large effort like this, the top siever, in this case most likely you, should get half credit for any primes found unless you find them in which case I should get all of the credit. (Of course you would get all of the credit if you found one.)

My opinion is that we need to sieve up to at least n=2M. With k=3 Riesels at n=2.7M, k=5 Proths around n=1.7M, and k=7 Riesels at nearly 2M, I think that's a reasonable target. (Perhaps even n=2.5M!) You would probably be the best one to decide how such a large range should be sieved or divided up and sieved. Continuing your sieving to n=1M is a great start. Can I assume that there is a lower bound on your sieve of n <= 470K?

Kosmaj, Karsten, and others, can I get some agreement on the 6-month rule? If so, I'd like to start sieving on k=243 starting next week sometime and would like the control on that one like Curtis has for k=5 here since I originally expressed interest in doing so. See the thread about that where I stated that I'd pick up the issue in Sept. if we hadn't heard anything. That one is not potentially as 'lucrative' as k=5 because some or all of the ranges that we think need to be tested may have already been tested.

On the rule, I'm not saying that we need to unreserve people's k's at exactly 6 months if we haven't heard from them. Of course we have to use good judgement about any given situation. Mainly what we need is that hard GUIDELINE to encourage people to keep their statuses more updated, regardless of how active they are in other prime-searching efforts.


Gary
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Old 2007-08-29, 18:11   #6
kar_bon
 
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Default reservation status

î'm only the data-collector here and no admin but i agree to get some rules for long term reservations without any status for many months.
before clearing any reservations the member can be informed per PM or email and after that the k should be set free for other reservations.
when i collected data from the old 15k-pages i saw many k's with very old status from 2004 or 2005. so this would be a good idea to push those k's higher.
i think 6 months without status is a good choice.
Karsten
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Old 2007-08-29, 19:18   #7
BlisteringSheep
 
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I don't want to step on any toes, but as always, I am available for sieving assistance. I'll leave the prime-finding to the experts (ie., you all, not me )
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Old 2007-08-29, 19:30   #8
em99010pepe
 
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Someone said expert?!?!?!
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Old 2007-08-30, 03:18   #9
VBCurtis
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gd_barnes View Post
Curtis,
My opinion is that we need to sieve up to at least n=2M. With k=3 Riesels at n=2.7M, k=5 Proths around n=1.7M, and k=7 Riesels at nearly 2M, I think that's a reasonable target. (Perhaps even n=2.5M!) You would probably be the best one to decide how such a large range should be sieved or divided up and sieved. Continuing your sieving to n=1M is a great start. Can I assume that there is a lower bound on your sieve of n <= 470K?

Gary
Gary,
I think a little bigger than you do. I am sieving it from 470k to 10M at present. Sheep is currently running 1.3M-4M for a few k's for me; k=5 will be added to this sieve shortly, at ~150T. 4M-10M will be set aside shortly for a later sr2sieve. I could use some help running the 470k-4M part, as Sheep's work will only filter out candidates after 150T (roughly the depth he's already at). Anyone wishing to donate sieving work in units of a trillion can email me at gmail (address is my handle at gmail); I'll mail them the file for sr1sieve work after I get to 5T or so, in a week or so.

As for the siever getting half credit on found primes-- that is too generous. Sieving is 5% of the total labor, so giving 50% credit is too much. I sieve on a laptop that overheats on LLR, some others who donate time may have similar circumstances. That said, sheep cannot run LLR on his PPCs, but does huge amounts of work for me/us, so I'll continue to share with him as appropriate (I would suggest the first k=5 prime found after 1.3M be shared with sheep as "payment" for sieving).

I have a habit of writing less than I'm thinking, leaving holes in my explanation. If anyone wants clarification, please let me know. PM or email if you wish to donate a bit of sieving (1T should take a week or less on AthlonXP or newer).
-Curtis
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Old 2007-08-30, 05:07   #10
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1) Gary, I wonder why are you so concerned with k=5 considering the fact that you're currently taking part in no distributed efforts, and not working on any k<300?

2) Forgive me for putting this straight, but saying that "We're getting left in the dust!" is nonsense even with smilies.

3) I agree that we can start a distributed effort on k=5. I mailed Phil about two months ago but got no reply.

4) As I said elsewhere before, I'm against any dead-lines, and/or chasing people to tell us about status of their search, etc. Everybody is free to search for any prime form, including those we are already working on. We would only like to suggest to others to coordinate their efforts with us so that we don't waste resources.
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Old 2007-08-30, 05:22   #11
paulunderwood
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gd_barnes
With k=3 Riesels at n=2.7M


See our status page for the most up to date search status (and join us and maybe find a mega-prime today!)

Wot no Phil I wonder how much he has already sieved?
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