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 2012-01-21, 17:27 #1 Rodrigo     Jun 2010 Pennsylvania 3A616 Posts Is Linux keeping the desktop? I just came across this interesting page where the writer lists design problems with the Windows 8 "Metro" interface. Note that the first objection is the inability to close programs. For Prime95 (and, I imagine, other GIMPS-related software) users, this means denying CPU cycles to our number-crunching applications, in order to keep other programs open uselessly. If the Windows 8 Developer Preview is any indication, the Windows Desktop's days are numbered. It's already taking a back seat to Metro, and it lacks a proper Start Menu. If Microsoft insists on dragging its customers in this direction, many of us explore alternative operating systems that maintain the current way of working (with a proper desktop, multitasking, and user control). For me, an inability to truly close programs would be a further push toward the edge. So my question to you is -- is the Linux community moving in the same direction of Teletubbying the user interface, or is it keeping the functional desktop for the foreseeable future? Rodrigo
 2012-01-21, 18:17 #2 Dubslow Basketry That Evening!     "Bunslow the Bold" Jun 2011 40
2012-01-21, 18:32   #3
chalsall
If I May

"Chris Halsall"
Sep 2002

2·11·431 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Dubslow Note again that I haven't actually tried Gnome 3, so it may be better or worse.
It's crap.

I'm currently using it, but in Gnome 2 "compatibility" mode. If they ever remove that ability, I will stop using Gnome. (And even in this mode, it has removed a bunch of abilities, such as having the panels hide themselves; all the widgets are gone, etc.)

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Dubslow The reason I love Gnome 2 is because I can make the desktop itself invisible, while keeping the panels around. The grey thingies at top and bottom are the panels. They can provide some neat stuff, such as an integrated weather/calendar/clock at the top right. At the bottom right, I have CPU monitor (left, blue) RAM monitor (middle, green) and ethernet bandwidth monitor (yellow).
And all of this is gone in Gnome 3....

2012-01-21, 21:46   #4
xilman
Bamboozled!

"𒉺𒌌𒇷𒆷𒀭"
May 2003
Down not across

101001011001002 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by chalsall It's crap. I'm currently using it, but in Gnome 2 "compatibility" mode. If they ever remove that ability, I will stop using Gnome. (And even in this mode, it has removed a bunch of abilities, such as having the panels hide themselves; all the widgets are gone, etc.) And all of this is gone in Gnome 3....
I'm running both G3 and G2. Both are fine, IMAO, and both are crap. Each in their own way, of course.

G3 is sufficiently reconfigurable that you can make it look pretty much like G2 both in appearance and in behaviour. The G2 machine (and the one on which I'm now typing) is running Fedora 14. The G3 machines are running Fedora 15 and, to be honest, I wasn't that impressed at first. A few tweaks, and G3 is now much more to my liking. AFAICT, Fedora 16 is a marked improvement on F15 --- something I'd expect from an upgrade to the first release of a brand new user interface. Sometime in the next week or two the F15 machines will be upgraded. If I like the result this F14/G2 system will also be upgraded.

Paul

 2012-01-21, 21:54 #5 Dubslow Basketry That Evening!     "Bunslow the Bold" Jun 2011 40
2012-01-21, 22:06   #6
xilman
Bamboozled!

"𒉺𒌌𒇷𒆷𒀭"
May 2003
Down not across

296416 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Dubslow xilman, why don't you like G2?
I do like G2. I don't like everything about G2. It's heavy weight, bloated and a real resource hog. Ever tried running Gnome 2 on a Gentoo system? I ran one for several years.

There are other window mangers out there which do a better job in these things and a worse job in others. My present systems run XFCE and KDE, Win7, WinXP and Snow Leopard as well as Gome. In the past I've run a bunch of others, including twm (now there's a light-weight but limited system) on Linux and sundry DEC systems, a whole bunch of SunOS from SunOS3 onwards, HP-sUX, Win 3.x, Win9x and DEC-OSF. I can't now remember the specific names of the window managers of some of those interfaces.

All of them have or had bad points; all have or had good points. G2 and G3 are no different in that respect.

Paul
Added in edit: "Motif" rings a bell. Bad associations with the words "Motif" and "mwm" but perhaps I'm thinking of something else.

Last fiddled with by xilman on 2012-01-21 at 22:08

2012-01-21, 22:24   #7
chalsall
If I May

"Chris Halsall"
Sep 2002

224128 Posts

Quote:
 Originally Posted by xilman I'm running both G3 and G2. Both are fine, IMAO, and both are crap. Each in their own way, of course. G3 is sufficiently reconfigurable that you can make it look pretty much like G2 both in appearance and in behaviour.
Then *please* tell me how to have widgets in the panels?

This was my standard desktop before being forced to G3 in G2 compatibility mode by upgrading to FC15. Note all the widgets giving me real-time data.

Also, I normally have 25 "screens" running, each containing many Windows, configured in a five by five array. Each screen is focused on a particular task, and I know exactly what screen to go to access what I need. I don't want Gnome 3 to tell me what I can access as a function of when I accessed them.

This is why, IMHO, Gnome 3 sucks. They are trying to play "catchup" with Micro$oft's bad ideas about user interfaces (but, hey, it sure looks cool (for those who don't understand what they are doing)).... 2012-01-21, 23:13 #8 Dubslow Basketry That Evening! "Bunslow the Bold" Jun 2011 40<A<43 -89<O<-88 3×29×83 Posts Quote:  Originally Posted by chalsall This is why, IMHO, Gnome 3 sucks. They are trying to play "catchup" with Micro$oft's bad ideas about user interfaces (but, hey, it sure looks cool (for those who don't understand what they are doing))....
*cough cough hackcounityughhack cough*
It's like they're competing for "Most Useless Interface".

Also, how do CPU Temp applet/whatever-they're-called?

Last fiddled with by Dubslow on 2012-01-21 at 23:14

 2012-01-21, 23:57 #9 Rodrigo     Jun 2010 Pennsylvania 93410 Posts Dubslow, Wow, thanks very much for the extended reply. I've come to understand more about the Linux world from this one posting than in all the research I did last spring when I was looking for an OS to run GIMPS software on my Pentium-75. Your description of Linux as, "code that controls the hardware," as opposed to the GUI which is "code that interacts with the user," was a great insight for me. In the early days of Windows, the GUI was in fact distinct from the "real" OS, which was MS-DOS. Windows ran "on top of" DOS. Over the years, this distinction was blurred and then obliterated on the MS side of computing. It's easy to forget the difference now. There IS a dizzying array of Linux distributions to pick from!! The "Linux distribution" article in Wikipedia was especially useful thanks to the screenshots of various desktop environments. As you might imagine, I'd be looking for something as close as possible to the Windows experience, so as to limit the learning curve; and from those images the KDE flavors seem to do a little better in that respect (no?). Gnome 2 looks like it'd work too, but one wonders for how long the developers will keep supporting it. (Although I did find a Maté desktop pledging to keep developing Gnome 2, but again one has to ask about staying power.) Also with the Windows-like idea in mind, I'm curious what you (and other Linux users around here) might think of Zorin OS, which I just discovered this afternoon and is billed as, "designed specifically for Windows users who want to have easy and smooth access to Linux." Thanks again for the great info! Rodrigo
 2012-01-22, 02:48 #10 Dubslow Basketry That Evening!     "Bunslow the Bold" Jun 2011 40
 2012-01-22, 04:38 #11 Rodrigo     Jun 2010 Pennsylvania 2·467 Posts Dubslow, The best illustration of what you just said about the vastness of the Linux universe, is that fact that a total Linux noob like me was able to point an experienced user like you to new information. I'm not counting on it happening again anytime soon, though! Rodrigo

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