mersenneforum.org  

Go Back   mersenneforum.org > Extra Stuff > Soap Box

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2009-04-24, 13:22   #78
Uncwilly
6809 > 6502
 
Uncwilly's Avatar
 
"""""""""""""""""""
Aug 2003
101×103 Posts

3×2,917 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by only_human View Post
Transmutation and/or re-use of radioactive waste in some future administration

My vote is actually that, for once, they are thinking ahead and trying to put some flexibility into the bureaucracy. Stranger things have happened.
One of the out falls of the 1970's nuke policies established in USA, is no 'breeder' reactors. One of the side effects of this is the forbidding of cyclotronic supported reactions. I have read an article about how there would be a useful system of destruction of nuke waste using a side beam. The results are: a net gain in power (not enough to fully power the cyc., but enough to support it's part of the beam) and production of a waste that is not a source of harmful radiation.

Less nuke waste, more GHG free power; seems like a win-win to me.
Uncwilly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-04-24, 13:39   #79
Uncwilly
6809 > 6502
 
Uncwilly's Avatar
 
"""""""""""""""""""
Aug 2003
101×103 Posts

3·2,917 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fivemack View Post
Medical isotopes are also handy, and are quite commonly produced in very low-power reactors at the moment.
One of my former jobs used/s a very small nuke source, something about the size of a push-pin. IIRC, the isotope was a generated one as well, either Cs or Am.

Construction uses tiny nuke istope sources as well. A soil density guage uses Cs and Am.
Uncwilly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-04-24, 21:02   #80
cheesehead
 
cheesehead's Avatar
 
"Richard B. Woods"
Aug 2002
Wisconsin USA

22×3×599 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by xilman View Post
Scenario: create radioactive neutron source (easy enough,:standard spallation sources have been known for decades). Take the source away from the plant to, say, docks or airport. Shine the neutrons through cargo and/or baggage. Pick up the gammas and excess neutrons produced by neutron-catalysed fission events. Divert any weapons-capable material before it has chance to be built into weapons.

That's just one means of using a neutron source to detect explosives..
... and it is being done at U.S. ports now and has been for several years, for that sort of detection in shipping containers.
cheesehead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-04-24, 21:12   #81
cheesehead
 
cheesehead's Avatar
 
"Richard B. Woods"
Aug 2002
Wisconsin USA

718810 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fivemack View Post
Cargo and baggage disconcertingly often turn out to have people in them; I'm not at all sure whether the neutron fluxes required to detect that there are four six-ounce lumps of U235 in a containerload of stainless-steel swarf being shipped off for recycling would be low enough not to pose a serious health threat to a containerload of unlabelled Azeri immigrants.
Fortunately, some of the best fission-weapon-suitable stuff, at least, radiates gammas and neutrons all by itself, so can be passively detected from outside a container with the right instruments.

I think all container-scanning folks should be aware of the possibility of stowaways, and would not use a potentially-people-damaging neutron probe until an earlier people-friendly detection probe first showed no sign of folks inside. In fact, I'd guess that combination devices, in which a people-friendly probe always preceded the less-friendly probe(s), would be the standard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fivemack View Post
I think a serious application (albeit proposed at the height of the oil boom) was to generate superheated steam for getting oil out of oil sands without having to burn prodigious amounts of natural gas first.
Strikes me as more feasible than using nukes to excavate a sea-level canal through Panama or Nicaragua.

Quote:
Medical isotopes are also handy, and are quite commonly produced in very low-power reactors at the moment.
I don't think the Hyperion devices (earlier in thread) were designed to allow routine removal of irradiated stuff, but I suppose something in the medical-isotope category might fit into the new guidelines.

Last fiddled with by cheesehead on 2009-04-24 at 21:26
cheesehead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-04-24, 21:32   #82
cheesehead
 
cheesehead's Avatar
 
"Richard B. Woods"
Aug 2002
Wisconsin USA

160248 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncwilly View Post
One of my former jobs used/s a very small nuke source, something about the size of a push-pin. IIRC, the isotope was a generated one as well, either Cs or Am.

Construction uses tiny nuke istope sources as well. A soil density guage uses Cs and Am.
Ionization-type home smoke detectors use Am. Mine has an itty-bitty warning inside.

IIRC, there was a story a few years ago about some high school student who constructed a nuclear reactor for his science fair. He dismantled hundreds of (surplus or discarded) smoke detectors to get enough Am to make it work.

Last fiddled with by cheesehead on 2009-04-24 at 21:34
cheesehead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-04-25, 11:45   #83
fivemack
(loop (#_fork))
 
fivemack's Avatar
 
Feb 2006
Cambridge, England

2·29·109 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheesehead View Post
Strikes me as more feasible than using nukes to excavate a sea-level canal through Panama or Nicaragua.
There was also the Project Plowshare experiment to use nukes to fracture gas-bearing rock in California so you could get more natural gas out. The experiment was cancelled when it was observed that a side-effect would be lightly to polonium-plate the jets in every gas stove in Los Angeles ...
fivemack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-04-25, 19:38   #84
Uncwilly
6809 > 6502
 
Uncwilly's Avatar
 
"""""""""""""""""""
Aug 2003
101×103 Posts

3×2,917 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fivemack View Post
lightly to polonium-plate the jets in every gas stove in Los Angeles ...
That place could use a dose of radiation.
Uncwilly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-04-26, 01:32   #85
only_human
 
only_human's Avatar
 
"Gang aft agley"
Sep 2002

3,581 Posts
Default

I was looking online for an article I read a few months back about a U.S. agency that spends its time retrieving unwanted and left-over radioactive materials without charge but I got sidetracked on irradiation and collected a bit of info on that instead:

http://www.epa.gov/radiation/sources/food_irrad.html
Quote:
Cobalt-60 is the most commonly used radionuclide for food irradiation. However, there are also large cesium-137 irradiators and the Army has also used spent fuel rods for irradiation.
approved uses of radiation on foods as of 1998 & http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dbmd/disea...rradiation.htm
Spices and dry vegetable seasoning, decontaminates and controls insects and microorganisms, 30 kGy

Dry or dehydrated enzyme preparations, controls insects and microorganisms, 10 kGy

All foods, controls insects, 1 kGy

Fresh foods, delays maturation, 1 kGy

Poultry, controls disease-causing microorganisms, 3 kGy

Red meat (such as beef, lamb and pork), controls spoilage and disease-causing microorganisms, 4.5 kGy (fresh), 7 kGy (frozen)

1963 Wheat flour, 0.2-0.5 kGy, Control of mold
1964 White potatoes, 0.05-0.15 kGy, Inhibit sprouting
1986 Pork, 0.3-1.0 kGy, Kill Trichina parasites
1986 Fruit and vegetables, 1.0 kGy, Insect control, increase shelf life
1986 Herbs and spices, 30 kGy, Sterilization
1990 - FDA Poultry, 3 kGy, Bacterial pathogen reduction
1992 - USDA - Poultry, 1.5-3.0 kGy, Bacterial pathogen reduction
1997 - FDA Meat, 4.5 kGy, Bacterial pathogen reduction
1999 - USDA (pending) Meat, 4.5 kGy, Bacterial pathogen reduction

Gray (gy) - a unit of measurement for absorbed dose. It relates to the amount of energy actually absorbed in a material, and is used for any type of radiation and any material. One gray is equal to one joule of energy deposited in one kg of a material. The unit gray can be used for any type of radiation, but it does not describe the biological effects of the different radiations. Absorbed dose is often expressed in terms of hundredths of a gray, or centi-grays. One gray is equivalent to 100 rads.

In 2008 the FDA approved the irradiation of Spinach and Lettuce
http://www.fda.gov/consumer/updates/...ion082208.html
only_human is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-04-30, 04:21   #86
only_human
 
only_human's Avatar
 
"Gang aft agley"
Sep 2002

3,581 Posts
Default

I started this thread with this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by only_human View Post
[May 2008]While watching C-Span, I learned that President Bush made light-water reactor program and enriched uranium supply aggreements in Saudi Arabia. US unveils deals with Saudi on nuclear power, oil protection
(changed link to one still active)

I don't know the state of this deal but a nearby deal is being held up because of torture -- and not the US' present torture conundrum.
Torture tape delays U.S.-UAE nuclear deal, say U.S. officials
Quote:
A videotape of a heinous torture session is delaying the ratification of a civil nuclear deal between the United Arab Emirates and the United States, senior U.S. officials familiar with the case said.
In the tape, an Afghan grain dealer is seen being tortured by a member of the royal family of Abu Dhabi, one of the UAE's seven emirates.
Quote:
The civil nuclear agreement was signed in January between the United Arab Emirates and the Bush administration, but after the new administration took office, the deal had to be recertified. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton recently signed the document and sent it to President Obama for his signature. It should have reached Capitol Hill by now, the senior U.S. officials say, but Obama hasn't yet signed it. And officials say it deliberately has not yet been sent to Congress for ratification.

"It's being temporarily held up because of that tape," one senior official said.
Quote:
Under the "1-2-3 deal," similar to one the United States signed last year with India, Washington would share nuclear technology, expertise and fuel. In exchange, the UAE commits to abide by the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty and the International Atomic Energy Agency safeguards.
I really don't know why the U.S. is so eager to share nuclear technology in the Middle East at all. Thoughts anyone?
only_human is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-04-30, 13:30   #87
garo
 
garo's Avatar
 
Aug 2002
Termonfeckin, IE

9CE16 Posts
Default

If they use nucular energy for power, they can export more oil to the US, no?

Does anyone else find it a bit odd that an agreement is held up because of torture by Obama who has promised not to prosecute any torturers who were "just following orders"? Oh the delicious irony....
garo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-04-30, 17:40   #88
only_human
 
only_human's Avatar
 
"Gang aft agley"
Sep 2002

3,581 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by garo View Post
If they use nucular energy for power, they can export more oil to the US, no?

Does anyone else find it a bit odd that an agreement is held up because of torture by Obama who has promised not to prosecute any torturers who were "just following orders"? Oh the delicious irony....
This particular quandary seems suited for Aesop's Fables if a more complex, modern version of that compendium existed.

Wikipedia's entry on Section 123 Agreement is almost entirely devoted to this specific UAE nuclear deal. Among the resources listed is the Washington UAE embassy resource page on this specific Section 123 agreement. Understandably, none of the embassy provided press resources mentions the sticky wicket of the video tape.
only_human is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Unfavorable price trends for AWS EC2 spot instances? GP2 Cloud Computing 14 2018-01-11 02:01
How much do you pay for your electric energy? em99010pepe Lounge 31 2011-02-14 01:57
kinetic energy science_man_88 Miscellaneous Math 8 2010-05-29 04:14
Energy Minimization ShiningArcanine Math 2 2008-04-16 13:47
Energy efficiency for LL markhl Hardware 5 2004-02-04 13:33

All times are UTC. The time now is 20:44.

Fri Oct 30 20:44:45 UTC 2020 up 50 days, 17:55, 1 user, load averages: 2.23, 2.07, 1.92

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum has received and complied with 0 (zero) government requests for information.

Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License, Version 1.2 or any later version published by the Free Software Foundation.
A copy of the license is included in the FAQ.