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Old 2020-09-23, 19:16   #34
rogue
 
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I do not understand how this former police officer is not facing any murder charges such as reckless homicide. WRT "wanton endangerment", it doesn't seem to matter if the person breaking that law has killed someone as the result of their actions.
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Old 2020-09-23, 23:14   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriesel View Post
One officer facing 3 charges from the grand jury. https://abc7news.com/louisville-stat...-time/6517412/
3 counts of wanton endangerment for killing somebody. This may go over like a turd in a punch bowl.
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Old 2020-09-24, 00:44   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by storm5510 View Post
3 counts of wanton endangerment for killing somebody. This may go over like a turd in a punch bowl.
NO Shit.
It will.

Last fiddled with by kladner on 2020-09-24 at 00:45
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Old 2020-09-24, 02:21   #37
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It is fairly common for someone who "shoots up a house" to be tried for murder if someone in the house is killed. I don't know why that doesn't work here. I can only see this as a hole in Kentucky state law.
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Old 2020-09-24, 04:55   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogue View Post
It is fairly common for someone who "shoots up a house" to be tried for murder if someone in the house is killed. I don't know why that doesn't work here. I can only see this as a hole in Kentucky state law.
He was charged for shooting up the neighboring apartments where no one died.

Really, there was no choice but to let the officers off. They had a warrant, they were fired upon, they returned fire. All according to their training.

The problem as I see it is with the warrant serving process. Why are officers not trained to announce a warrant and wait for acknowledgement especially at midnight when homeowners are apt to be very disoriented? The current process is ripe for exactly this kind of outcome where the homeowner fires in the belief there is a home invasion in progress and the police fire back.

Do Louisville officers in a rich/white neighborhoods announce they have a warrant (and I've not seen independent corroboration that they did that) and then barge in? Would they have served the warrant in the dead of night? If the rich or white are served warrants differently, then there is a legitimate charge that the system is corrupt or racist. Perhaps the grand jury should be looking into the commanders that made the decision to serve the warrant at that hour.
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Old 2020-09-24, 05:38   #39
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The laws regarding no-knock warrants conflict with the laws governing self-defense.

David French's piece is a good starting point, I think.
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Old 2020-09-24, 12:32   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime95 View Post
He was charged for shooting up the neighboring apartments where no one died.

Really, there was no choice but to let the officers off. They had a warrant, they were fired upon, they returned fire. All according to their training.

The problem as I see it is with the warrant serving process. Why are officers not trained to announce a warrant and wait for acknowledgement especially at midnight when homeowners are apt to be very disoriented? The current process is ripe for exactly this kind of outcome where the homeowner fires in the belief there is a home invasion in progress and the police fire back.

Do Louisville officers in a rich/white neighborhoods announce they have a warrant (and I've not seen independent corroboration that they did that) and then barge in? Would they have served the warrant in the dead of night? If the rich or white are served warrants differently, then there is a legitimate charge that the system is corrupt or racist. Perhaps the grand jury should be looking into the commanders that made the decision to serve the warrant at that hour.
As I thought about it more, I agree, as much as I don't want to. Combine a "no knock warrant" with someone firing a gun from the home is going to create situations like this. Fewer people would take issue with the outcome if the suspect were killed instead of someone who was innocent.
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Old 2020-09-24, 13:51   #41
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Breonna Taylor's ex-boyfriend was the target of the investigation that led to the warrant. They claimed he was using her address to receive illegal drugs through the mail. "No-knock" search warrants are not uncommon when searching the premises of a suspected drug dealer.

However, the suspect wasn't living there any more, and wasn't present at the time the warrant was executed. The search also did not find any drugs. It was the current boyfriend who fired at the door, believing it was the ex. He was initially charged with the attempted murder of a police officer for firing that shot, but that charge was dropped, pending indictment.

Curiously, the Louisville Postal Inspector says his office wasn't involved in any investigation of drugs being mailed to that address, and that no "packages of interest" were going there. Oof. If the cops lied on the affidavit they gave in support of the warrant, IMO they aught to go to prison for it.
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Old 2020-09-24, 14:35   #42
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The single Louisville Metro PD officer was being held in an adjacent county to the east. He bonded out. $15,000 USD.

One man shot two LMPD officers last night when the protesters hit the streets. 127 others were arrested. This may be just the start.

Louisville is 50 miles (80 km) to my southwest, so I get a lot of news feeds from there.
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Old 2020-09-24, 15:01   #43
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Notice, and people's statements about it afterward, can be problematic if not bizarrely disparate from reality. I once received a written request through the US mail from a renter requesting maintenance. I replied by mail confirming I had received their request and would act on it. I followed up with a telephone message confirming scheduling, more than the statutory 24 hour nonemergency notice period in advance. On the designated day, I rang the doorbell and waited, and got no response. So I used my key and entered, and could hear audio of a movie. I went to the sound, to see if they were home, and tell them I was there for the maintenance if they were present. The whole family of five was watching a DVD. The renter later absurdly stated under oath that I had intruded on their family life without any prior notice. (They had skipped out without paying the last month's rent and done many months worth of damage, failed to surrender keys, left trailer loads of junk behind, etc.) One would hope that sworn officers would be more accurate than that renter.
The Breonna Taylor case has lots of parts to it and is a royal mess, and the stakes were far higher. There are many versions of it circulating. Any notice given while the occupants are likely asleep might satisfy a legal check box, but it is very unlikely to be effective in accomplishing the ostensible purpose of notice, which would be compliance rather than armed response or pure panic.
The David French article is a good and unnerving read.

Last fiddled with by kriesel on 2020-09-24 at 15:23
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Old 2020-09-24, 16:49   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriesel View Post
Notice, and people's statements about it afterward, can be problematic if not bizarrely disparate from reality. I once received a written request through the US mail from a renter requesting maintenance. I replied by mail confirming I had received their request and would act on it. I followed up with a telephone message confirming scheduling, more than the statutory 24 hour nonemergency notice period in advance. On the designated day, I rang the doorbell and waited, and got no response. So I used my key and entered, and could hear audio of a movie. I went to the sound, to see if they were home, and tell them I was there for the maintenance if they were present. The whole family of five was watching a DVD. The renter later absurdly stated under oath that I had intruded on their family life without any prior notice. (They had skipped out without paying the last month's rent and done many months worth of damage, failed to surrender keys, left trailer loads of junk behind, etc.) One would hope that sworn officers would be more accurate than that renter.
The Breonna Taylor case has lots of parts to it and is a royal mess, and the stakes were far higher. There are many versions of it circulating. Any notice given while the occupants are likely asleep might satisfy a legal check box, but it is very unlikely to be effective in accomplishing the ostensible purpose of notice, which would be compliance rather than armed response or pure panic.
The David French article is a good and unnerving read.
Why is (unfortunately) why so much documentation is needed for actions like this. One needs to "cover their ass" beforehand, not afterwards as memories are not reliable. This is where certified mail can be helpful especially if you attach a return receipt to it. If you get the return receipt the recipient cannot claim they never received the certified mail.

Nevertheless we are in a place (as a race) where few want to take responsibility for their words or actions. They choose to get overly defensive or overly aggressive instead of saying "I made a mistake and apologize".
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